Funds for a stockmarket downturn/crash

Sea_Shell

If I did want to "dabble" in gold, with say £2000, and wanted to do this via my Fidelity ISA, which type of funds should I be looking at?

I did see a Jupiter one that looked interesting.   

Jupiter Gold & Silver Fund U3 GBP Acc (OOSGU)

It appears to hold some physical gold/silver in trust (Sprott) - c.20%, along with equities in the mining companies, mainly heavy on Canada.

It's 12 month NAV low is 15.91, (where it currently is), and had a 12 month NAV high of 22.03

masonic

If you want your investment to follow the gold price, then a physical gold ETC would be preferable to mining shares, which tend to be a lot more volatile and whose performance is only somewhat correlated with the gold price. For example iShares Physical Gold ETC (SGLN). There are equivalent options for silver if you are interested in that, although I'd be dubious about the value of silver as a diversifier.

kuratowski

If you want physical gold, I've seen Wisdomtree mentioned on here a lot:

https://www.fidelity.co.uk/factsheet-data/factsheet/JE00B1VS3770-wisdomtree-metal-securities/key-statistics 

Options available for gold, silver and precious metals.  But bear in mind these are ETFs not funds, so there's a transaction fee for buying/selling.  On the other hand, if you're running an all ETF portfolio, the platform fee gets capped

Sea_Shell

kuratowski said:

If you want physical gold, I've seen Wisdomtree mentioned on here a lot:

https://www.fidelity.co.uk/factsheet-data/factsheet/JE00B1VS3770-wisdomtree-metal-securities/key-statistics 

Options available for gold, silver and precious metals.  But bear in mind these are ETFs not funds, so there's a transaction fee for buying/selling.  On the other hand, if you're running an all ETF portfolio, the platform fee gets capped

That looks interesting, thanks.   How much are the transaction fees, as I can't seem to see them.   

ETA - just found it £10 per trade.  A bit steep on only £2000.  (ponders)

ETAA - Actually, with Fidelity's usual fee of 0.35% on funds, that would work out at £7 pa on £2000, so if I kept an ETF for 5 years, it would be comparing cost of £35 in fees, or £20 for a buy and sell.

Have I got that right??

tranquility1

I'm with iWeb, and I went through the process of comparing physical gold ETCs.

iShares physical gold was the cheapest. Wisdom tree charge an extra fee of some kind.

kuratowski

Sea_Shell said:
How much are the transaction fees, as I can't seem to see them.   

ETA - just found it £10 per trade.  A bit steep on only £2000.  (ponders)
ETAA - Actually, with Fidelity's usual fee of 0.35% on funds, that would work out at £7 pa on £2000, so if I kept an ETF for 5 years, it would be comparing cost of £35 in fees, or £20 for a buy and sell.
Have I got that right??

The transaction fee for a one off trade is £10, although it is only £1.50 for regular transactions, I believe others have used this difference to their advantage, I couldn't possibly comment.
You still pay the 0.35% platform fee for ETFs but it gets capped (unlike for funds) and if you hold a large enough portfolio of ETFs, this cap makes Fidelity a very attractive platform overall.  However if you hold mostly funds plus this one ETF you won't be benefiting from the cap.
So in your example of holding £2k over 5 years you would be paying £20 transaction fee (or maybe £3) plus platform fees £35, assuming no growth.
As Tranqulity1 states, the iShares fund has a cheaper AMC than Wisdomtree, I believe some people prefer the Wisdomtree Jersey domicile to the iShares Irish domicile, for reasons that I don't remember, and I have no skin in this game.

Sea_Shell

I'd rather not start opening accounts on other platforms, but thanks for the info.

We're looking to keep things simple.

Maybe just stick in a cautious fund instead 😉

Albermarle

kuratowski said:

Sea_Shell said:
How much are the transaction fees, as I can't seem to see them.   

ETA - just found it £10 per trade.  A bit steep on only £2000.  (ponders)
ETAA - Actually, with Fidelity's usual fee of 0.35% on funds, that would work out at £7 pa on £2000, so if I kept an ETF for 5 years, it would be comparing cost of £35 in fees, or £20 for a buy and sell.
Have I got that right??

The transaction fee for a one off trade is £10, although it is only £1.50 for regular transactions, I believe others have used this difference to their advantage, I couldn't possibly comment.
You still pay the 0.35% platform fee for ETFs but it gets capped (unlike for funds) and if you hold a large enough portfolio of ETFs, this cap makes Fidelity a very attractive platform overall.  However if you hold mostly funds plus this one ETF you won't be benefiting from the cap.
So in your example of holding £2k over 5 years you would be paying £20 transaction fee (or maybe £3) plus platform fees £35, assuming no growth.
As Tranqulity1 states, the iShares fund has a cheaper AMC than Wisdomtree, I believe some people prefer the Wisdomtree Jersey domicile to the iShares Irish domicile, for reasons that I don't remember, and I have no skin in this game.

Also worth noting that this low £45 cap with Fidelity, also applies to all accounts , including SIPP's and is a maximum £45 over all accounts you have on the platform .
With the other two ( I think ) platforms with a cap on exchange traded funds , The cap increases for SIPP's to £120 for AJ Bell and £200 for HL .

I would be interested is anybody can elaborate on the difference between Wisdom Tree and I shares Gold ETF's ?

Shocking_Blue

Shocking_Blue said:

Aminatidi said:

I have my money spread across:

• Capital Gearing Trust
• Ruffer Investment Company
• Fundsmith
• Smithson
• Buffettology

I don't think any of them are specifically for a downturn/crash but what I've tried to do is balance funds that have a "wealth preservation" mandate with funds with a growth mandate but hopefully with a focus on good companies that steer clear of bubbles and hopefully just plod on doing their thing come what may.

I have a bit of a thing about trying to pick managers that have skin in the game too as I think it helps align interests.

Just out of interest, wondered what members thought were of distribution across wealth protection, defensive-oriented and PBs I currently have:

CGT 14%
Fundsmith/Smithson 16% in total
PBs 19%

Along with balanced multi-asset funds 32%

Rest in 100% equities inc riskier satellite funds and some punts.

Retirement probably 5 or 6 years.

Thanks.

Hi all,

Just re-posting my earlier post for any comments.

Thanks.

JohnWinder

Did you follow the link on p3 of this thread, to see some commentary on CGT?

Its seemed to be more expensive, lower returning, and more volatile than a comparable life strategy tracker-type blended fund. Perhaps you could indicate why you think it's a good choice for you when there seems to be a readily available alternative. It's not terrible to my mind, but why bother when you already have balanced multi-asset funds?