Can I live in my uncles house

AdrianC

youareperfecttome said:

Thanks for some of your help. I am not trying to rip my uncle off.

I'm sure. But, as PoA, there are very explicit legal requirements...

My husband and myself do not have a lot of money

Your own financial circumstances do not come into whether a PoA decision is in his best interests or not.

but would be quite happy to pay rent.

It would need to be a fair market rent, not a lower "family rate".

Your uncle's financial interests MUST come first. He has huge bills facing him for the rest of his life, which will swallow all of his other assets and the majority of the house value, if he lives long enough.

He needs EVERY PENNY he has to cover those costs.

Your inheritance is secondary - it's what's left when he dies.

Your housing situation only comes into it if it makes hard, cold financial sense - because you're paying the same as Joe Average would. Because, otherwise, you are depriving him of that difference in rent.

If it is in disrepair, then surely it will sell for more money if we make it look a lot better surely.

But will it add more to the sale price than you spend?

If you spend £10k and add £5k to an eventual sale price, then you've wasted £5k of his money.

Worse - if you end up inheriting the house, then you could easily be perceived to have spent £10k of his money on yourselves.

user1977

If he's not coming back to the house, isn't the most sensible action (from his point of view) going to be to sell it now?

TripleH

The issue is that you have Legal powers over your Uncle and his affairs. It's sadly not just about whether you do or don't do anything wrong, it's about how others view your actions at the end of the day

Having lost a relative through dementia, I hope any suffering is brief and as pain free as possible.

Norman_Castle

youareperfecttome said:

Thanks for some of your help. I am not trying to rip my uncle off. My husband and myself do not have a lot of money, but would be quite happy to pay rent. If it is in disrepair, then surely it will sell for more money if we make it look a lot better surely. Some of the comments however upset me. 

Keeping it structurally sound is different from investing his money on the assumption he will get a better return when it is sold.

Exactly what are you thinking of doing?

getmore4less

theartfullodger said:

There must be a process for challenging dodgy PoAs...   (Recently had experience of my sister having PoA for our brother, now deceased.  She handled it impeccably)

And you already think you're inheriting?  Some might wish that gets challenged.

Best wishes to all.

There is 

oversight of POA comes under the office of the public guardian. 

https://www.gov.uk/report-concern-about-attorney-deputy-guardian

They have a statutory duty to oversee any deputy appointed by the courts

For those appointed by the donor(eg LPA/EPA) they need a complaint first.

They don't deal with retrospective complaints of deceased donors that job fall on the executor(often the attorney) 


The key piece of legislation that cover POA is the mental capacity act.
all those with POA should have read the code of practice.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mental-capacity-act-code-of-practice

theoretica

You, as POA, need to work out what would be the best thing for your uncle - and it would be good to get and document professional advice especially about the house (what is it worth if sold as is, what would it be worth if work were done, what would the work cost, fair market rent) and future care and good standard of living costs.  What costs and luxuries does you uncle have now, what are anticipated?  If extra carers, physio or other activities would enhance his life can they be easily afforded?

If renting the house out turns out to be the best solution - from your uncle's point of view - and this is documented, then it seems possible for you to be the one to rent it.

What makes you want to rent your uncle's house rather than rent another property?

WorriedKirkels

youareperfecttome said:

My 85 year old uncle is in a care home with dementia, I have lasting power of attorney for both financial and health, and am executor of his will. He has willed his house to me when he passed away. 
My question is can my husband and I live in his house? We have to move out of our rented accommodation, which is a nightmare as I am suffering with depression at the moment. 
Can I use money from my uncles bank account to update his house, as it is in a bad state? 

Before you take any steps you need to ascertain whether your Uncle lacks capacity to make these decisions. Just because someone has been diagnosed with dementia it does not mean that they can’t make any decisions at all. Whilst I don’t know how progressed your Uncles dementia is, if you liaise with his social worker they can arrange for a mental capacity assessment to confirm if he can make this specific decision. If he does lack capacity, a best interest decision can be completed with the social worker and family (including yourself as POA) - this assessment can decide whether selling the house or renting it out is in his best interest. This decision will be based on his specific circumstances including known beliefs and wishes - the Will should be considered within this decision as he clearly wanted you to receive his home in the future.

For reference, what you are asking is very common place but needs to be done properly. If rental is in your uncles best interest, then 3 quotes would need to be obtained for making the house up to rental standard and also 3 quotes for what market rent would be. The works would be funded from your uncles assets but remember that you will need to declare this on his behalf and submit accounts for tax purposes etc. You would be expected to pay market rent. All of these steps enable you to evidence due diligence to the OPG should your decision making be challenged.

Finally, it is now illegal to force anyone to sell their home to fund care costs. If you look up The Care Act and read the sections about charging, accommodation and deferred payments, it will provide you with insights. The Act enables people to rent their homes whilst in care and to use the funds to contribute to their care costs whilst any costs not covered can be deferred under the deferred payment scheme. I would suggest contacting your local authority’s adult social care department for specific information on how the scheme is administered in your local area - they will have a team who can advise you through the whole process which most families find helpful. It should be noted that interest applies to the costs deferred.

l know it will have been such a hard decision admitting your uncle to a care home but he will be getting the care he needs and what you are trying to do will hopefully provide him with a level of financial stability for the years to come.

AdrianC

WorriedKirkels said:

Before you take any steps you need to ascertain whether your Uncle lacks capacity to make these decisions. Just because someone has been diagnosed with dementia it does not mean that they can’t make any decisions at all.

While this is undoubtedly true, if his dementia is advanced enough for him to be resident in a care home, it's VERY unlikely he still has capacity.

Finally, it is now illegal to force anyone to sell their home to fund care costs. If you look up The Care Act and read the sections about charging, accommodation and deferred payments, it will provide you with insights. The Act enables people to rent their homes whilst in care and to use the funds to contribute to their care costs whilst any costs not covered can be deferred under the deferred payment scheme. I would suggest contacting your local authority’s adult social care department for specific information on how the scheme is administered in your local area - they will have a team who can advise you through the whole process which most families find helpful. It should be noted that interest applies to the costs deferred.

I rather suspect that's academic in this case.

The house will need to be sold to meet the bills, whether now or by the executor after his death. There simply aren't the assets to meet the deferred bill otherwise, and it doesn't sound as if the OP could inject the funds to prevent the necessity for sale.

All that would be doing is delaying the inevitable and incurring additional costs.

Brie

youareperfecttome said:

Thanks for some of your help. I am not trying to rip my uncle off. My husband and myself do not have a lot of money, but would be quite happy to pay rent. If it is in disrepair, then surely it will sell for more money if we make it look a lot better surely. Some of the comments however upset me. 

Don't take the comments personally - there's no need to be upset (easy for me to say, of course).  Lots of people on public forums sometimes forget that there's a person behind a nice thorny problem.  Or they assume that it's a joke or a reporter fishing for stories.  

As for improvements - I would suggest that you could do the sort of basic things that might make the place worth renting or presentable for sale.  A coat of paint, getting in industrial strength cleaners, paying to dispose of junk.  But not replacing a perfectly fine avocado green bathroom just because it would look better in white.  

If it's a house and there's just you and your husband maybe it's too big for you and therefore the rent will be too high?  If not and you are willing to pay the market rent then you will need to see what can be improved upon from your own money as appropriate to tenants.  If you are renting and the boiler breaks down then your uncles money should (in my opinion) pay to have it fixed or replaced.  

Ultimately though if money is required for uncle's care (you haven't said if this is likely that I have noticed) above whatever pension he is receiving and the rent you might be paying then the council are likely to at a minimum put a lien on the house so that after his death a sale would be required.  Unless at that point you have the cash to pay them off.

Good luck with all of this - it is a difficult thing to deal with.

WorriedKirkels

AdrianC said:

WorriedKirkels said:

Before you take any steps you need to ascertain whether your Uncle lacks capacity to make these decisions. Just because someone has been diagnosed with dementia it does not mean that they can’t make any decisions at all.

While this is undoubtedly true, if his dementia is advanced enough for him to be resident in a care home, it's VERY unlikely he still has capacity.

Not necessarily, capacity is decision specific.  This means someone may not be able to meet their personal care needs, for example, and therefore lack capacity in this regard but have capacity to make financial decisions.  The mental capacity act and the code of conduct are very clear that you should always assume capacity.  Unfortunately, there is an increasing number of people receiving care in residential or nursing home settings who do have capacity but their needs are unable to be met within their own home (either due to funding pressures or due to the type of specialist care required.)

Finally, it is now illegal to force anyone to sell their home to fund care costs. If you look up The Care Act and read the sections about charging, accommodation and deferred payments, it will provide you with insights. The Act enables people to rent their homes whilst in care and to use the funds to contribute to their care costs whilst any costs not covered can be deferred under the deferred payment scheme. I would suggest contacting your local authority’s adult social care department for specific information on how the scheme is administered in your local area - they will have a team who can advise you through the whole process which most families find helpful. It should be noted that interest applies to the costs deferred.

I rather suspect that's academic in this case.

The house will need to be sold to meet the bills, whether now or by the executor after his death. There simply aren't the assets to meet the deferred bill otherwise, and it doesn't sound as if the OP could inject the funds to prevent the necessity for sale.

All that would be doing is delaying the inevitable and incurring additional costs.

Potentially but it depends on whether he has any other income (such as workplace pension), existing capital or other assets.  Care costs can also potentially be reduced if the OP approaches the local authority to contract with the home (more favourable fees than contracting privately as a self-funder).  It is also helpful to note that in the Autumn the long anticipated Green Paper for social care funding reform is supposedly going to be published (although this has been awaited for more than 12 months now.)  The green paper takes forward part 2 of The Care Act that was not enacted - this part of the Act put a cap on care costs so that the total costs for care home fees would have been much less.  The government has indicated that this will progress in some form so there may be further opportunities for families to reduce care cost spends in the coming months/years.

Thank you, added some points above for OP in case they are helpful.

OP - might be worth contacting the Society of Later Life Advisers (SOLLA) they provide independent advice and guidance around these sorts of issues.