Wall collapse- neighbours fault?

Beatthebullies

Hello All,

Our party wall has just collapsed into our garden. Is there anything we can do? We did bring it up with the neighbour on numerous occasions and we even paid for the massive tree (which was her side) to be removed so to hopefully save the wall (didn't work). 

Since then, she has piled up her side and used it as a dumping ground. We mentioned it a while back again (as had a baby and were genuinely concerned) and she said she would do something . Although since then she's just piled more stuff up and even put a brown, wooden fence across the gap, to hide her rubbish from the rest of her garden I guess! 

Recently, the wall gave away. 

The soil behind the wall is higher than our land and there is her brick outhouse there. And as I mentioned, she further added to the stress on the wall by piling up more junk. 

Also, pretty sure the wall was built before the garden belonged to our house, so surely must be hers? 

Is there anything we can do with this mess? Not an ideal garden for a toddler to enjoy  

kasqueak

Why can’t you just take the wall down? (what’s left of it). 

If your neighbour doesn’t want it and you don’t want it just get rid of it. 

Replace with a fence/hedge etc. 

Who’s boundary is it on? Yours or hers? Look for the T marks on your land registry plan. 

Brie

I believe you are within your rights to take everything as it's hers and put it on to her land.  No different than if her tree overhung and you trimmed it back.

Happy to be corrected on this.

dj1471

So the ivy was supporting the wall, you removed it and caused the wall to collapse, correct?

If the wall is on the boundary (you said it was a party wall which suggests that it is) then responsibility for it is likely shared. Do you have any tangible reason to believe the wall belongs to your neighbour or are you just trying to avoid any responsibility or expense?

I think you’ll have to come to an agreement with your neighbour over its repair or replacement.

Jeepers_Creepers

BtB, you pointed out your legitimate concerns about this wall on a few occasions. Was any of this done in a recorded way, or just verbally? Had the wall subsequently fallen down and caused damage or injury, then you'd be in a strong case to claim damages if you could demonstrate that you had 'warned' the neighbour. Mind you, 'injury' would be hard to claim for, as you'd be demonstrating you were a twit by placing yourself behind a wall that you knew to be unsafe.

Anyhoo, that's bytheby - the wall has fallen down after you removed the 'structural' ivy :-) and no-one was hurt in the process.

What to do now? Hmm. First thing would be to ascertain who the damned wall really belongs to. Your deeds should show which boundary is your 'responsibility', but that's not the end of it. It also matters where the wall is positioned - is it 'on' the boundary, ie. straddling it, or is it fully on their or your side of the boundary line. The easiest way to work this out is by looking at where it connects with your properties - can you do this?

Assuming it's either 'on' the boundary line or on the neighb's side, I'd suggest the best thing for your sanity would be to give the neighb back their bricks - nicely, no throwing - and to then put up a fence tight against it on your side. And relax. If you see anything being chucked behind your fence which could be pushing on it, then you'll need to go through the proper process of having a chat, telling them it just ain't cricket, and - if needed - 'putting them on notice' that any damage caused will be claimed for. And you do.

Alternatives are to try and work out an acceptable - to you as well as them - solution involving that wall; if you like the look of it, then perhaps see if it's affordable to go halves on its rebuild? Ie - put the cost of your new fence towards it instead. Bear in mind, you cannot force or oblige them to rebuild the wall - they don't even need to put a wall there.

Another alternative is for you to pay for the wall by yourself...

I suspect that ain't a goer, and I also suspect that this neighb is not going to be rebuilding that wall either, judging by the care they've taken so far.

So, either just put up your own fence to hide it, or - with their agreement (if it's 'theirs') - take it down fully and then put your new fence up on that wall line - gain a foot of garden space.

Twopints

dj1471 said:

So the ivy was supporting the wall, you removed it and caused the wall to collapse, correct?

If the wall is on the boundary (you said it was a party wall which suggests that it is) then responsibility for it is likely shared. Do you have any tangible reason to believe the wall belongs to your neighbour or are you just trying to avoid any responsibility or expense?

I think you’ll have to come to an agreement with your neighbour over its repair or replacement.

Er, yes, that's how walls usually work, they have to be supported by plants, not by bricks and mortar 

ryan7

That wall is going to have to come down, the earth removed and a new load bearing wall built to prevent soil moving into your garden in the future.
Up to you whether you approach your neighbour or not. 
Its obvious they have no interest in this as its obscured by their shed. 

Rosa_Damascena

ryan7 said:

That wall is going to have to come down, the earth removed and a new load bearing wall built to prevent soil moving into your garden in the future.
Up to you whether you approach your neighbour or not. 
Its obvious they have no interest in this as its obscured by their shed. 

Funny place to put a fence though. Am wondering if next door has been divided into flats and there is a LL that needs to be contacted.

Get the point about the ivy but lets not pretend it added to the structural integrity of the wall.

Rosa_Damascena

Beatthebullies said:

Hello All,

Our party wall has just collapsed into our garden. Is there anything we can do? We did bring it up with the neighbour on numerous occasions and we even paid for the massive tree (which was her side) to be removed so to hopefully save the wall (didn't work). 

Since then, she has piled up her side and used it as a dumping ground. We mentioned it a while back again (as had a baby and were genuinely concerned) and she said she would do something . Although since then she's just piled more stuff up and even put a brown, wooden fence across the gap, to hide her rubbish from the rest of her garden I guess! 

We were pulling up all the ivy the last few days and the wall gave away. 

The soil behind the wall is higher than our land and there is her brick outhouse there. And as I mentioned, she further added to the stress on the wall by piling up more junk. 

Also, pretty sure the wall was built before the garden belonged to our house, so surely must be hers? 

Is there anything we can do with this mess? Not an ideal garden for a toddler to enjoy  

h

Read this properly now. Your neighbour is a selfish wotnot and I would take a heavy handed approach. The bricks have fallen onto your side which would suggest the force came from her side of the boundary.

ryan7

The wall should have been attended to long ago. Years of damp, heavy soil penetrated the cement which has compromised its strength. 
Again, if you are not going to approach the neighbour then do it yourself. It's a hazard and even more so if you have a toddler who wants to play in the garden. 

Niv

I have a wall that was / is similarly kept up with Ivy so feel your pain.

What do you actually realistically want to happen here? It seems unlikely the neighbour will take an interest in maintaining the wall as they have hidden it from view and just use the area for junk storage. I am sure they will be happy for you to repair the wall at your own expense, which I presume you don't want to do.

The best case zero cost scenario that I think is realistic is the neighbour may concede that its their wall and therefore you can put the bricks on their side but the wall will likely remain as is. There is no requirement to keep a wall in place. If the whole wall is unstable, then sure it may come down, but still no requirement to put a wall up (or any physical item to mark the boundary).

The neighbour may take the view that you damaged the wall by your attempted maintenance of it and that's when things could get messy if you are not willing to put some £ into this. In a previous house I had a poorly constructed wall (well actually I don't really know if it was mine, theirs or shared - but it was 'declared' as mine so I just dealt with it), the neighbour attached things to said wall and caused its collapse on to their side. As I was prepared to replace the wall at my own expense they were happy for the wall to stay in their garden until I had chance to remove it. Everyone left happy (albeit that It cost me a few quid but i got a wall that's not going anywhere).

Related to my rambling anecdote, it looks like your washing line is attached to the neighbours building - I would expect that to become a casualty of war if things take a turn for the worst so I suggest you consider alternative places to attach it.