Ebay - Funds on hold for an item sold six months ago due to Credit Card Chargeback.

lju

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

lju said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

soolin said:

lju said:

Reply from eBay:

Thank you for patiently waiting. As I checked on this, since the buyer is no longer protected here on eBay they filed a charge back dispute with their payment provider. To resolve this issue, I strongly recommend you get in touch with PayPal to check the status of the dispute and have them close it.

So it looks as though I wasn't on managed payments at the time of this sale. PayPal are closed now but I will contact them and see what they have to say once they open. 

As above, PayPal seller protection covers chargebacks as long as you upload proof of postage. I always upload proof, then follow up with an email and phone call telling them I am invoking my seller protection. 

Paypal seller protection does cover chargebacks for unauthorised or not received however if they are for the goods being not as described this is excluded from the protection program:

www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#pp-seller-protection

The following items or transactions are not eligible for PayPal Seller Protection:

Item where the buyer claims (either with us or their card issuer) that the item you sent isn't what was ordered (referred to as a “Significantly Not as Described” claim).

It's strange to me that eBay have asked the OP to upload photos of the item. OP are you sure you aren't on managed payments?

I've just had time to check through my sales. I am on managed payments from eBay for this sale. eBay have given me a PayPal dispute ID. I've phoned PayPal who said it all seems very strange. The buyer has initiated a chargeback through their payment provider and stated the item "is not as described", stating it no longer turns on. This is a PC which they have had for four months. It shows delivered on eBay. Paypal have said they will look into it in more detail "but cannot guarantee I will win". 

So your buyer has used Paypal but the buyer hasn't paid you, they paid eBay who then give you the funds so it's a bit odd for eBay to give out a dispute ID for Paypal as managed payments should mean sellers have nothing to do with Paypal.

The help page on eBay says the following on getting the item back specifically for payment disputes:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/getting-paid/handling-payment-disputes-managed-payments-seller?id=4799

How to accept the dispute and request a return

1. Select Respond to case from the dispute notification.
2. Select Accept dispute and buyer receives refund and select Continue.
3. Select Try to get my item returned.
4. Verify or edit your return address, then select Accept to confirm the refund.

How to challenge the dispute and request a return

1. Select Respond to case from the dispute notification.
2. Select Challenge dispute and provide proof and select Continue.
3. Select Try to get my item returned.
4. Verify or edit your return address.
5. Verify or edit the information, or upload new evidence.
6. Select Submit.

Was you able to provide eBay with the photos they requested?

The buyer hasn't opened a case on eBay so I am unable to respond.

They have gone straight to whom ever they fund their PayPal with and started a chargeback. Stating the item no longer turns on so is not as described. 

eBay have asked for evidence to fight the chargeback from me i.e. the photo.

I can sort of understand the process but not withholding £195 from my payments to cover this potential chargeback.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

lju said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

lju said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

soolin said:

lju said:

Reply from eBay:

Thank you for patiently waiting. As I checked on this, since the buyer is no longer protected here on eBay they filed a charge back dispute with their payment provider. To resolve this issue, I strongly recommend you get in touch with PayPal to check the status of the dispute and have them close it.

So it looks as though I wasn't on managed payments at the time of this sale. PayPal are closed now but I will contact them and see what they have to say once they open. 

As above, PayPal seller protection covers chargebacks as long as you upload proof of postage. I always upload proof, then follow up with an email and phone call telling them I am invoking my seller protection. 

Paypal seller protection does cover chargebacks for unauthorised or not received however if they are for the goods being not as described this is excluded from the protection program:

www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#pp-seller-protection

The following items or transactions are not eligible for PayPal Seller Protection:

Item where the buyer claims (either with us or their card issuer) that the item you sent isn't what was ordered (referred to as a “Significantly Not as Described” claim).

It's strange to me that eBay have asked the OP to upload photos of the item. OP are you sure you aren't on managed payments?

I've just had time to check through my sales. I am on managed payments from eBay for this sale. eBay have given me a PayPal dispute ID. I've phoned PayPal who said it all seems very strange. The buyer has initiated a chargeback through their payment provider and stated the item "is not as described", stating it no longer turns on. This is a PC which they have had for four months. It shows delivered on eBay. Paypal have said they will look into it in more detail "but cannot guarantee I will win". 

So your buyer has used Paypal but the buyer hasn't paid you, they paid eBay who then give you the funds so it's a bit odd for eBay to give out a dispute ID for Paypal as managed payments should mean sellers have nothing to do with Paypal.

The help page on eBay says the following on getting the item back specifically for payment disputes:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/getting-paid/handling-payment-disputes-managed-payments-seller?id=4799

How to accept the dispute and request a return

1. Select Respond to case from the dispute notification.
2. Select Accept dispute and buyer receives refund and select Continue.
3. Select Try to get my item returned.
4. Verify or edit your return address, then select Accept to confirm the refund.

How to challenge the dispute and request a return

1. Select Respond to case from the dispute notification.
2. Select Challenge dispute and provide proof and select Continue.
3. Select Try to get my item returned.
4. Verify or edit your return address.
5. Verify or edit the information, or upload new evidence.
6. Select Submit.

Was you able to provide eBay with the photos they requested?

The buyer hasn't opened a case on eBay so I am unable to respond.

They have gone straight to whom ever they fund their PayPal with and started a chargeback. Stating the item no longer turns on so is not as described. 

eBay have asked for evidence to fight the chargeback from me i.e. the photo.

I can sort of understand the process but not withholding £195 from my payments to cover this potential chargeback.

I've only had one of these (for an unauthorised payment) and eBay had a dispute flow similar to the case system but simply giving the option to upload tracking or to refund. It was referred to as a "Payment dispute case".

I'm assuming you've had something similar and been able to upload a photo through the flow instead, whether the info from the help page posted above reflects reality I don't know.

By submitting the photo eBay should in theory use this as evidence to either contest the chargeback or offer seller protection.

Regarding seller protection eBay state the following:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/selling-policies/payment-dispute-seller-protections?id=5293

When a buyer opens a payment dispute because the item doesn't match the listing

When a buyer opens a payment dispute because the item they received doesn't match the listing, sellers will be asked to provide evidence to challenge the payment dispute, such as photographs showing the item's condition prior to shipment.

When determining whether to protect a seller, eBay will look for one of the following:

The seller issued a full refund to the buyer through eBay

The seller issued a partial refund to the buyer through eBay in accordance with our partial refund guidelines for an item that was returned used or damaged, provided that the seller is eligible to give a partial refund through Top Rated Seller protections

An eBay Money Back Guarantee case of the same type for the same transaction was:

Decided against the buyer, or

Resolved with a full refund to the buyer

If eBay determines that the transaction is eligible for protections:

We will not seek reimbursement from the seller for the disputed amount, even if the payment institution decides that the buyer is owed a refund; and

We will waive or refund the seller's dispute fee

Given the criteria for being covered I don't see how the photos help really.  

For the unauthorised payment which I had, eBay closed the dispute and covered the transaction themselves as the tracking showed as delivered (tracking is not applicable to not as described disputes).

It was only £3 so whether eBay bother to contest with the payment provider I don't know (from many conversations with Payapl, over the years they might not bother to contest low value claims and just take the hit if seller protection was given to the seller).

For low value payment disputes the sting in the tail is the £14 +VAT (£16.80) fee they add on top if you are deemed "responsible". 

lju

I've just had the item delivered back to me. It is an all in one PC. Screen damaged, mouse missing and no power supply.

lju

And here we have the decision:

A decision has been made about the dispute that was filed by xxxxx. The dispute was found in the buyer's favour.

As a result, you owe £195.00 plus a dispute fee of £14.00 to eBay. We'll recover this amount from your account. I cannot believe this.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Are you a business or was you selling your own PC as a private seller?

lju

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Are you a business or was you selling your own PC as a private seller?

private seller. own pc.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

lju said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Are you a business or was you selling your own PC as a private seller?

private seller. own pc.

With a private sale the goods only have to match the description rather than have any durability, etc. 

You could send the buyer a letter before action (templates on Google and will only cost a stamp) requesting repayment within 14 days.

If this doesn't yield a result you could file through small claims. 

This is decided on the balance of probability and to my mind (which may not mean much) someone doesn't buy a product such as a PC and not use it for 6 months.

If you still have the photos from the listing this would help and the smashed screen may help your case

Is it your screen the buyer returned or have they swapped it?

Was it damaged in transit?

Does the PC unit itself show signs of wear and use (or anything installed on the PC itself) to indicated it has been used by the buyer? 

A glance at Google streetview and a nose on social media may give an idea of what kind of person this is and whether they are likely to be affected by a small claims court judgement. 

It's a lot of hassle for £200 but, just my opinion for what it's worth, I don't see eBay covering this due to the amount and the fact it's a card issue rather than something through their moneyback guarantee program. 

Just to add I appreciate your frustration, I'd be peeved as well  

lju

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

lju said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Are you a business or was you selling your own PC as a private seller?

private seller. own pc.

With a private sale the goods only have to match the description rather than have any durability, etc. 

You could send the buyer a letter before action (templates on Google and will only cost a stamp) requesting repayment within 14 days.

If this doesn't yield a result you could file through small claims. 

This is decided on the balance of probability and to my mind (which may not mean much) someone doesn't buy a product such as a PC and not use it for 6 months.

If you still have the photos from the listing this would help and the smashed screen may help your case

Is it your screen the buyer returned or have they swapped it?

Was it damaged in transit?

Does the PC unit itself show signs of wear and use (or anything installed on the PC itself) to indicated it has been used by the buyer? 

A glance at Google streetview and a nose on social media may give an idea of what kind of person this is and whether they are likely to be affected by a small claims court judgement. 

It's a lot of hassle for £200 but, just my opinion for what it's worth, I don't see eBay covering this due to the amount and the fact it's a card issue rather than something through their moneyback guarantee program. 

Just to add I appreciate your frustration, I'd be peeved as well  

I totally agree with everything you have said. eBay have washed their hands of it. 

When thinking last night I had already decided to go down the LBA route in the first instance. 

The PC is the one I sold, I am unable to test it as it has a bespoke PSU which they have not returned. 

I have found the buyer on Facebook and they look to be quite affluent.

My only concern / thought re small claims is that I fear the judge may say that my claim should be against eBay and not the original buyer due to the chain of the original banking complaint if that makes sense?

It's not about the money for me, it is the principle and the fact I feel I have been scammed so easily and eBay don't seem to care. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

lju said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

lju said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Are you a business or was you selling your own PC as a private seller?

private seller. own pc.

With a private sale the goods only have to match the description rather than have any durability, etc. 

You could send the buyer a letter before action (templates on Google and will only cost a stamp) requesting repayment within 14 days.

If this doesn't yield a result you could file through small claims. 

This is decided on the balance of probability and to my mind (which may not mean much) someone doesn't buy a product such as a PC and not use it for 6 months.

If you still have the photos from the listing this would help and the smashed screen may help your case

Is it your screen the buyer returned or have they swapped it?

Was it damaged in transit?

Does the PC unit itself show signs of wear and use (or anything installed on the PC itself) to indicated it has been used by the buyer? 

A glance at Google streetview and a nose on social media may give an idea of what kind of person this is and whether they are likely to be affected by a small claims court judgement. 

It's a lot of hassle for £200 but, just my opinion for what it's worth, I don't see eBay covering this due to the amount and the fact it's a card issue rather than something through their moneyback guarantee program. 

Just to add I appreciate your frustration, I'd be peeved as well  

I totally agree with everything you have said. eBay have washed their hands of it. 

When thinking last night I had already decided to go down the LBA route in the first instance. 

The PC is the one I sold, I am unable to test it as it has a bespoke PSU which they have not returned. 

I have found the buyer on Facebook and they look to be quite affluent.

My only concern / thought re small claims is that I fear the judge may say that my claim should be against eBay and not the original buyer due to the chain of the original banking complaint if that makes sense?

It's not about the money for me, it is the principle and the fact I feel I have been scammed so easily and eBay don't seem to care. 

I think the claim is with the buyer, really eBay as a platform have done what they said they would (which for SNAD isn't much other than refund).

Not much of a consolation but as mentioned earlier if the payment was done the old fashioned Paypal way the result would have been the same with a £14 additional fee (which is actually cheaper than eBay's as I think its plus VAT so £16.40).

You can add the fee to the claim but eBay may give you this back as goodwill, Paypal typically did if you was in good standing, depends on what eBay have allowed CS to offer really.   

Good luck and keep us updated if you can  

lju

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

lju said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

lju said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Are you a business or was you selling your own PC as a private seller?

private seller. own pc.

With a private sale the goods only have to match the description rather than have any durability, etc. 

You could send the buyer a letter before action (templates on Google and will only cost a stamp) requesting repayment within 14 days.

If this doesn't yield a result you could file through small claims. 

This is decided on the balance of probability and to my mind (which may not mean much) someone doesn't buy a product such as a PC and not use it for 6 months.

If you still have the photos from the listing this would help and the smashed screen may help your case

Is it your screen the buyer returned or have they swapped it?

Was it damaged in transit?

Does the PC unit itself show signs of wear and use (or anything installed on the PC itself) to indicated it has been used by the buyer? 

A glance at Google streetview and a nose on social media may give an idea of what kind of person this is and whether they are likely to be affected by a small claims court judgement. 

It's a lot of hassle for £200 but, just my opinion for what it's worth, I don't see eBay covering this due to the amount and the fact it's a card issue rather than something through their moneyback guarantee program. 

Just to add I appreciate your frustration, I'd be peeved as well  

I totally agree with everything you have said. eBay have washed their hands of it. 

When thinking last night I had already decided to go down the LBA route in the first instance. 

The PC is the one I sold, I am unable to test it as it has a bespoke PSU which they have not returned. 

I have found the buyer on Facebook and they look to be quite affluent.

My only concern / thought re small claims is that I fear the judge may say that my claim should be against eBay and not the original buyer due to the chain of the original banking complaint if that makes sense?

It's not about the money for me, it is the principle and the fact I feel I have been scammed so easily and eBay don't seem to care. 

I think the claim is with the buyer, really eBay as a platform have done what they said they would (which for SNAD isn't much other than refund).

Not much of a consolation but as mentioned earlier if the payment was done the old fashioned Paypal way the result would have been the same with a £14 additional fee (which is actually cheaper than eBay's as I think its plus VAT so £16.40).

You can add the fee to the claim but eBay may give you this back as goodwill, Paypal typically did if you was in good standing, depends on what eBay have allowed CS to offer really.   

Good luck and keep us updated if you can  

I certainly will keep this thread updated. LBA sent this morning.