Contesting a Will as Next-of-Kin

RomfordNavy

74jax said:

Is this a close relative? A parent / sibling?

...

If it's a close relative, how you didn't even speak to a nurse, doctor, specialist at all, is beyond me. You need to prove certain things to contest a Will and a couple are - sound mind (which you have implied they had) and that the close relationship continued. When you couldn't get hold of them (at end of life) you didn't even call hospitals..... More you won't arrange a funeral, despite a funeral Bill being the first thing paid from an estate.

...
It looks like they chose to change the will as you weren't as close as you thought you were and in the final month they realised this.

When they first entered hospital they confirmed that I would be given as NoK which I agreed to.  The deceased did not provide any indication of what hospital they were in.  Final messages we had were suggesting that they were being prepared for coming home.

Relationship was cousins.  After the funeral of one of my parents a couple of years back there were three of us who went back to the house afterwards and the deceased was one so I would have said we were were quite close yes.

Other family members have indicated that they feel somewhat offended by being virtually completely left out of the Will and are reluctant to pay towards a funeral if they are not going to get it back which they won't if it is done without the permission of the executors.  A funeral bill is only the first thing paid from an estate if the executors agreed to it in advance.

74jax

The fact no one will arrange a funeral for someone they describe as a close relative because they won't get anything in the Will and will be left empty handed speaks volumes.

I understand some people 'can't' afford, but not once was this mentioned and you mention cousins (plural).

The funeral parlour will contact charities no doubt who will arrange funeral and pay from the estate.

This is a very very sad state of affairs.

I'm guessing you won't attend the funeral if you didn't attend hospital,
 To actually see the person when alive, and I think this is very sad that you expect an Inheritance.

Yes items will be sold off, you are free to buy them if you wish. Just let the charities know.  If the deceased had wanted you to have them free, it would be in the Will. 

Keep_pedalling

RomfordNavy said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Apologies if I'm mistaken, but this thread was two days old and had reached page 4 before you mentioned the (very relevant?) fact that the two executors had renounced.  I know that you posted previously that the "friend" was "reserve" executor, but who was the other, and do you know why they both renounced?  (I think you may have indicated earlier that the friend may not have been entirely happy to have been left nothing).

Somebody needs to apply to administer the estate.  It would usually be a family member but does not have to be.  As others have pointed out, "next of kin" is a meaningless term.

Are the charity beneficiaries aware of the bequests?  I'm surprised they have not stepped in... 

One renounced because had been written in the Will without beeing asked.  The other renounced because having agreed to it was then faced with the situation where the deceased became very awkward, suspected as a result of medication, and would not provide any details of assets or assistance with other details.  Both also considered it a bit of a kick in the teeth to be completely excluded from the Will.  Don't think either would have wanted much but a small gratuity for carrying out the task may have been expected.

Charities are not as far as I know aware.

Unless the charities are made aware not a lot is going to happen as far as someone arranging the funeral is concerned. The renouncing executors should inform the then that they have renounced. If sounds like one beneficiary is a national charity and the other a local one, either could take on the administration but the national one is probably best situated to do it. 

As long as the estate is solvent then any reasonable funeral costs the family incur should be reimbursed  by the executors but it might be worth talking to the bereavement advice centre about organising a funeral under these unusual circumstances. 

https://www.bereavementadvice.org/topics/probate-and-legal/insolvent-estates/

RomfordNavy

Keep_pedalling said:

As long as the estate is solvent then any reasonable funeral costs the family incur should be reimbursed  by the executors but it might be worth talking to the bereavement advice centre about organising a funeral under these unusual circumstances. 

https://www.bereavementadvice.org/topics/probate-and-legal/insolvent-estates/

Thanks that is very helpful. Currently on hold trying to get through to them.

RomfordNavy

Also found a Probate Office webchat facility here: https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/ask-hmrc/webchat/probate

Unfortunately no one ever seems to be available here but will keep trying.

Keep_pedalling

RomfordNavy said:

Also found a Probate Office webchat facility here: https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/ask-hmrc/webchat/probate

Unfortunately no one ever seems to be available here but will keep trying.

Probably best to try early morning, as near to office opening hours as possible.

sheramber

The deceased let us know when admitted to Hospital and kept in touch regularly until we assume phone battery went flat.

 The deceased did not provide any indication of what hospital they were in.

Did you not ask what hospital he was in? That is the first thing I  would have asked.

It seems everybody has gone in huff because   they are not going to  inherit.

How often do any of these family and friends visit him before covid restrictions?  

if the friend who was involved with the hospital didn't have any contact with  the family, it doesn't sound as if there was as close a relationship with your uncle as you like to think.

 

RomfordNavy

sheramber said:

Did you not ask what hospital he was in? That is the first thing I  would have asked.

Yes but never got a reply.

sheramber said:

How often do any of these family and friends visit him before covid restrictions? 
 

The close friends were there virtually daily.  Some of them have incurred significant costs carrying out the deceased wishes but none got even a mention in the final Will.

sheramber said:

if the friend who was involved with the hospital didn't have any contact with  the family, it doesn't sound as if there was as close a relationship with your uncle as you like to think. 
 

Don't know about you but most of my relations that don't live locally don't know how to contact any of my friends and vice-versa.  Maybe meet occasionaly at a party or something but I have never known relations and friends swap contact details.

74jax

RomfordNavy said:

sheramber said:

Did you not ask what hospital he was in? That is the first thing I  would have asked.

Yes but never got a reply.

sheramber said:

How often do any of these family and friends visit him before covid restrictions? 
 

The close friends were there virtually daily.  Some of them have incurred significant costs carrying out the deceased wishes but none got even a mention in the final Will.

sheramber said:

if the friend who was involved with the hospital didn't have any contact with  the family, it doesn't sound as if there was as close a relationship with your uncle as you like to think. 
 

Don't know about you but most of my relations that don't live locally don't know how to contact any of my friends and vice-versa.  Maybe meet occasionaly at a party or something but I have never known relations and friends swap contact details.

I know you've mentioned this before but this is really normal.
You obviously don't do things for friends or family during palative stages hoping they will include you in the will. You carry out wishes as you are close and want too. 

Manxman_in_exile

RomfordNavy said:

74jax said:

Is this a close relative? A parent / sibling?

...

If it's a close relative, how you didn't even speak to a nurse, doctor, specialist at all, is beyond me. You need to prove certain things to contest a Will and a couple are - sound mind (which you have implied they had) and that the close relationship continued. When you couldn't get hold of them (at end of life) you didn't even call hospitals..... More you won't arrange a funeral, despite a funeral Bill being the first thing paid from an estate.

...
It looks like they chose to change the will as you weren't as close as you thought you were and in the final month they realised this.

When they first entered hospital they confirmed that I would be given as NoK which I agreed to.  The deceased did not provide any indication of what hospital they were in.  Final messages we had were suggesting that they were being prepared for coming home...

So your cousin contacted you out of the blue to say that they had been admitted to hospital, and they also told you that they had given your name to the hospital as NoK, but your cousin refused to tell you what hospital they were in?  But he kept in touch with you (until his 'phone battery ran out) and gave you the impression he would soon be discharged?  But he never told you where he was?

It seems totally bizarre (and a bit unbelieveable to be honest... ) that he would go to the trouble of contacting you to say he was in hospital - but not tell you which hospital.  Why would he do that?  None of that makes sense.  (It doesn't even make sense if he was confused etc because of medication.  If he had the capability to tell you he was in hospital, he was capable of telling you where.  It makes no sense.)

RomfordNavy said:

74jax said:

Is this a close relative? A parent / sibling?

...

If it's a close relative, how you didn't even speak to a nurse, doctor, specialist at all, is beyond me. You need to prove certain things to contest a Will and a couple are - sound mind (which you have implied they had) and that the close relationship continued. When you couldn't get hold of them (at end of life) you didn't even call hospitals..... More you won't arrange a funeral, despite a funeral Bill being the first thing paid from an estate.

...
It looks like they chose to change the will as you weren't as close as you thought you were and in the final month they realised this.

Other family members have indicated that they feel somewhat offended by being virtually completely left out of the Will and are reluctant to pay towards a funeral if they are not going to get it back which they won't if it is done without the permission of the executors.  A funeral bill is only the first thing paid from an estate if the executors agreed to it in advance.

I'm sorry to say I don't think much of the "other family members".  I can't imagine any family member being so offended in this situation that they would not contribute to the funeral.

RomfordNavy said:

sheramber said:

Did you not ask what hospital he was in? That is the first thing I  would have asked.

sheramber said:

How often do any of these family and friends visit him before covid restrictions? 
 

The close friends were there virtually daily.  Some of them have incurred significant costs carrying out the deceased wishes but none got even a mention in the final Will.

sheramber said:

if the friend who was involved with the hospital didn't have any contact with  the family, it doesn't sound as if there was as close a relationship with your uncle as you like to think. 
 

I can't imagine what significant costs they would have incurred carrying out the deceased's wishes.  If they were deathbed wishes then I'm not sure they should have expected to be reimbursed.  How do you know they incurred these costs?  I presume they told you?  Do you believe them?

And are they the same "friends" who refuse to act as executors because they were not left anything, and would rather your cousin remained unburied?

I can't say that anybody seems to come out of this very well...