Could this be a scam? High value item sale on eBay...

prowla

If it walks like a duck and its bum bounces along the floor...

Tunstallstoven

OK, fair enough and thank you.  

MalMonroe

Seagull27 said:

Hi

I'm selling a high value item on eBay.  I offered to deliver or arrange a courier.  However, the buyer is adamant they want to arrange their own courier.   Because of this I've refused to use paypal, etc. 

We've agreed that I'll list the item as cash on collection and the buyer is going to pay by BACS at the end of the auction.  Once I can see that payment has been received in my bank,  I'll let him know he is good to arrange his courier. 

Am I missing something?  Is this all too good to be true?  Could I be putting myself at risk of a scam and if so how? 

Many thanks

If the buyer is going to pay by BACS at the end of the auction, how is that any different to ebay's system?

Did you know that you are not allowed to sell outside eBay? (See link below).

If you do everything VIA EBAY, you will not lose your money. I would have to tell this prospective buyer 'nope, we are doing it the eBay way or no way'. Then you both have a money back guarantee. 

Please read the link below before you do anything else in connection with your sale -

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/payment-policies/offers-buy-sell-outside-ebay-policy?id=4272

There are some VERY clever scams being organised at the moment and it'd be silly not to go through eBay when it's the easiest thing to do.

Don't think "I could lose the sale", think "I could lose a bucketload of money".

p3ncilsharpener

MalMonroe said:

Seagull27 said:

Hi

I'm selling a high value item on eBay.  I offered to deliver or arrange a courier.  However, the buyer is adamant they want to arrange their own courier.   Because of this I've refused to use paypal, etc. 

We've agreed that I'll list the item as cash on collection and the buyer is going to pay by BACS at the end of the auction.  Once I can see that payment has been received in my bank,  I'll let him know he is good to arrange his courier. 

Am I missing something?  Is this all too good to be true?  Could I be putting myself at risk of a scam and if so how? 

Many thanks

If the buyer is going to pay by BACS at the end of the auction, how is that any different to ebay's system?

Did you know that you are not allowed to sell outside eBay? (See link below).

If you do everything VIA EBAY, you will not lose your money. I would have to tell this prospective buyer 'nope, we are doing it the eBay way or no way'. Then you both have a money back guarantee. 

Please read the link below before you do anything else in connection with your sale -

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/payment-policies/offers-buy-sell-outside-ebay-policy?id=4272

There are some VERY clever scams being organised at the moment and it'd be silly not to go through eBay when it's the easiest thing to do.

Don't think "I could lose the sale", think "I could lose a bucketload of money".

There's a good chance they will if they let the buyer use their own courier.

They either need to use their own courier or failing that use the code system from managed payments (assuming they're on managed payments.)  Otherwise the buyer is almost guaranteed to claim that they never received the item.

Tunstallstoven

Thanks for the replies.

The sale is through eBay, marked as cash on collection.  We arranged for BACs because he wanted to use his own courier. 

Based on previous info, I thought that:

- Not using PayPal means he cannot claim non-receipt etc through PP
- Using BACs means the eBay Money Back Guarantee doesn't apply. 
- BACs payments are irreversible once cleared

So I thought all angles were covered but have now learnt that the third point is not the case and BACs payments are indeed vulnerable.  

Interestingly though, in our initial correspondences his preference was to use PayPal.  It was me that said no to that basedon that the fact that he wanted to use his own courier....

p3ncilsharpener

Seagull27 said:

Thanks for the replies.

The sale is through eBay, marked as cash on collection.  We arranged for BACs because he wanted to use his own courier. 

Based on previous info, I thought that:

- Not using PayPal means he cannot claim non-receipt etc through PP
- Using BACs means the eBay Money Back Guarantee doesn't apply. 
- BACs payments are irreversible once cleared

So I thought all angles were covered but have now learnt that the third point is not the case and BACs payments are indeed vulnerable.  

Interestingly though, in our initial correspondences his preference was to use PayPal.  It was me that said no to that basedon that the fact that he wanted to use his own courier....

So he wanted to use PayPal and arrange his own courier, which is a common scam.  I'd have walked away immediately at that suggestion.

Tunstallstoven

I hear what you are saying.  But the fact he was also willing to do a bank transfer also suggested that he wasn't aiming for the common PayPal/own courier scam.  

I've no idea how scammers operate but I suppose I've always assumed you don't get "freestyle" scammers - i.e. someone who goes for a PayPal/own courier scam and when that is thwarted switches course to a scam such as that experienced in https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6281005/bank-transfer-scam/p1

I know what assume makes though in the old adage, and perhaps I'm naive to think that and perhaps there are "throw everything including the kitchen sink" type scammers out there?

For the sake of argument, if he won the auction on ebay, it was listed as cash on collection, I personally delivered it, was paid cash and we did the QR code thing, would that be safe (aside from the counterfeit money possibility)?

Many thanks  

Tunstallstoven

In addition to my previous reply, if the buyer paid via PayPal Friends and Family, would that make things safe for me as buyer?  I know it leaves him unprotected, but no more so than BACs I'd imagine?

p3ncilsharpener

Seagull27 said:

I hear what you are saying.  But the fact he was also willing to do a bank transfer also suggested that he wasn't aiming for the common PayPal/own courier scam.  

I've no idea how scammers operate but I suppose I've always assumed you don't get "freestyle" scammers - i.e. someone who goes for a PayPal/own courier scam and when that is thwarted switches course to a scam such as that experienced in https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6281005/bank-transfer-scam/p1

I know what assume makes though in the old adage, and perhaps I'm naive to think that and perhaps there are "throw everything including the kitchen sink" type scammers out there?

For the sake of argument, if he won the auction on ebay, it was listed as cash on collection, I personally delivered it, was paid cash and we did the QR code thing, would that be safe (aside from the counterfeit money possibility)?

Many thanks  

I'd be more likely to assume that he has other ways to pull this scam off, rather than him not being a scammer.

If he paid cash and it wasn't fake everything would be fine, you wouldn't even need to personally deliver it or use the code.  I suppose he could hit you with a non-performing seller strike if you didn't get proof it was collected (maybe?) but other than that there is no risk with a cash purchase.

Tunstallstoven

If he paid cash and it wasn't fake everything would be fine, you wouldn't even need to personally deliver it or use the code.  

I thought that without the code he could say he hasn't had the item?  Or does that not matter because the onus is on him when it is Collection Only?  

Thanks for sticking with me   

EDIT - actually, scrap what I wrote above RE PayPal F+F.  I've just been reading an old thread and it seems these payments can be subject to "chargebacks" if the scammer is a very good one.