Could this be a scam? High value item sale on eBay...

Tunstallstoven

Hi

I'm selling a high value item on eBay.  I offered to deliver or arrange a courier.  However, the buyer is adamant they want to arrange their own courier.   Because of this I've refused to use paypal, etc. 

We've agreed that I'll list the item as cash on collection and the buyer is going to pay by BACS at the end of the auction.  Once I can see that payment has been received in my bank,  I'll let him know he is good to arrange his courier. 

Am I missing something?  Is this all too good to be true?  Could I be putting myself at risk of a scam and if so how? 

Many thanks

p3ncilsharpener

Probably a scam.

There's a good chance the buyer will either claim they were scammed to the bank and potentially get their money back or the account used to pay you will not be theirs.

I'd strongly advise against accepting bank transfers as payments for goods/services nowadays.  The risk of being ripped off has been transferred to the seller rather than the buyer.

tacpot12

I also think this is suspicous. You could tell them you will accept a bankers draft (or cash). Tell them you will pay the cost of the draft (upto £20). 

soolin

Stick to your guns, list with the price of the courier shown clearly up front and take the usual managed payments. On ebay you have no advantage now using a bank transfer as it doesn’t save you any fees. Never deliver an item either unless they pay cash.

pbartlett

If it is a scam, and they send you a payment from a compromised bank account, it is likely your own account will be frozen.

Tunstallstoven

Hi

Many thanks for the replies.  

We've just had a long chat with the bank about all of this.  They are adamant that once the money is on our account, it is ours and safe.  She said that if it was a payment from a fraudulent or hacked account, it would only become a problem if we repaid the money because it would look like money laundering.  But otherwise because it wouldn't be our fault we wouldn't be liable and wouldn't have to repay the money.

We asked the question in a number of different ways and with a number of different scenarios and she couldn't emphasise strongly enough that we had nothing to worry about.  

The only thing she suggested is getting a receipt of collection from the courier.  

Obviously that's not in line with what you guys think, so not really sure what to believe now!

Any further thoughts on reflection from what the bank have said?

Thank you so much for the help.  

soolin

Seagull27 said:

Hi

Many thanks for the replies.  

We've just had a long chat with the bank about all of this.  They are adamant that once the money is on our account, it is ours and safe.  She said that if it was a payment from a fraudulent or hacked account, it would only become a problem if we repaid the money because it would look like money laundering.  But otherwise because it wouldn't be our fault we wouldn't be liable and wouldn't have to repay the money.

We asked the question in a number of different ways and with a number of different scenarios and she couldn't emphasise strongly enough that we had nothing to worry about.  

The only thing she suggested is getting a receipt of collection from the courier.  

Obviously that's not in line with what you guys think, so not really sure what to believe now!

Any further thoughts on reflection from what the bank have said?

Thank you so much for the help.  

Until a few weeks ago I would have categorically said that you were safe with a bank transfer, however there are 2 threads at least now on other boards where people have had their accounts frozen pending investigation by th ebank about receiving money fraudulently.
I still can't see how a person receiving money can be held to account unless they were knowingly part of a fraud , but whilst there is a chance of any inconvenience to a seller I would be cautious. I need to understand on what basis the banks have decided the recipient was a scammer.
I am still taking bank transfers if offered, many facebook users prefer it, but am hesitant to state categorically on a higher end item to someone else that they will be entirely free of any hassle. 

Tunstallstoven

Thanks for explaining @soolin

I don't suppose you have links to these threads so I can have a read to look for similarities etc?  Sorry to be a pain, but I wouldn't know where to start looking!  

pbartlett

Bank Transfer Scam — MoneySavingExpert Forum

Yes the employee is right that the money in your account would normally be yours BUT what they failed to say is that if the money was fraudulently paid to your account it would be recovered eg if the scammer had access so someone else's account and paid you from there.

Tunstallstoven

Thanks @pbartlett

pbartlett said:

Bank Transfer Scam — MoneySavingExpert Forum

what they failed to say is that if the money was fraudulently paid to your account it would be recovered eg if the scammer had access so someone else's account and paid you from there.

We did specifically ask about that exact scenario and she said we/the money would be protected because there was no way of us knowing that...

But I've just read the 11 pages of the thread linked above and wow - what an eye opener!  

From what I have learnt after reading that epic, I wondered if the possible would make my sale safer....  

1. I ensure that the BACs payment is from an account in the seller's name.
2. I ask them to make the payment straight away (so that they have no time to liaise with the third party who is actually making the payment, should it be a scam).
3. I ask them to put something in the reference field, such as my ebay user name and a reference to the item.  

EDIT - perhaps also ask them to pay a slightly different figure, like the amount but a few pence more/less.

Should that be enough?  

Thanks a million

p3ncilsharpener

Seagull27 said:

Thanks @pbartlett

pbartlett said:

Bank Transfer Scam — MoneySavingExpert Forum

what they failed to say is that if the money was fraudulently paid to your account it would be recovered eg if the scammer had access so someone else's account and paid you from there.

We did specifically ask about that exact scenario and she said we/the money would be protected because there was no way of us knowing that...

But I've just read the 11 pages of the thread linked above and wow - what an eye opener!  

From what I have learnt after reading that epic, I wondered if the possible would make my sale safer....  

1. I ensure that the BACs payment is from an account in the seller's name.
2. I ask them to make the payment straight away (so that they have no time to liaise with the third party who is actually making the payment, should it be a scam).
3. I ask them to put something in the reference field, such as my ebay user name and a reference to the item.  

EDIT - perhaps also ask them to pay a slightly different figure, like the amount but a few pence more/less.

Should that be enough?  

Thanks a million

Don't bother with any of that.  Just don't take a bank transfer. It's the only way to be sure.

There are also examples of people who have, for some inexplicable reason, managed to convince their bank that they got ripped off when buying something, and have managed to pull the money back.  None of what you posted above will protect you against that.

If someone has a bank account, they have the means to make the payment through eBay's system.  Anyone who is avoiding using that is almost certainly up to no good.  Why would they throw away the free protection they get through eBay and go with a method where they could end up with no money and no item?  And before you say "because they want to use their own courier" ask yourself why....  Because it's part of the scam.