Charged in GBP without my agreement, card issuer and Mastercard refuse to fix it, any ideas?

born_again

Peter_Parsons said:

IanManc said:

Peter_Parsons said:

Carrot007 said:

Yes all went as planned.

Only fault is you and the merchant.  The card company or mastercard cannot help.

If is likely the merchant is in on it and does it that way for a kickback. Thoughh should allow you to choose on the machine. Of course in a different language it is not always easy. (and some may just do it becuase they think they are helping (or there boss told them that as they want the kickback)).

So blame where the blame is and move on.

There was no option to choose on the machine (for me, anyway). I speak enough of the local language to have been able to choose if I had been asked, which I wasn't.

I see no reason why the issuer and/or Mastercard can't cancel the original GBP transaction and recharge it in local currency (which I've always said I'd be happy to happen).

I can see a reason - when Mastercard investigate, the hotel which didn't offer you the choice of paying in the local currency or sterling when they should have done will say that they did offer you the choice and that you chose sterling.

Mastercard are saying that because I used my PIN, I must have agreed to the currency, which is not true.

By entering your PIN, you are agreeing to the amount & currency. If as you said nothing was displayed. Then you should not have entered your PIN. 
Any error sits squarely with the retailer, as they enter  the data for you to approve.

 To dispute you need to prove that you agreed to the amount & currency, but given you entered you PIN on the transaction, which is you authorising the payment. I can only see it will fail. A invoice will not suffice. You would need the terminal receipt that shows the amount & currency used. Which is clearly going to be the same as you were charged.

zagfles

Ebe_Scrooge said:

wolvoman said:

Why on earth does DCC even exist? What possible benefit does it bring to consumers?

There's a couple of "claimed" benefits.  Firstly, the customer can see what they're actually paying, in their "home" currency, without having to wait until the credit card bill arrives.  And, for business users, they can submit their expense claims more quickly because, again, they don't have to wait until the statement arrives before they can submit their expenses.  But overall the benefit is to the merchant, as they can make a profit by using a more unfavourable (for the customer) exchange rate.

Indeed. It was invented because the currency conversion markup is very lucrative for whoever does it, as it's a way to charge customers without them noticing. Normally VISA or MasterCard will convert the currency with a small markup (maybe 0.5% or less) and the credit card provider will add an additional markup of maybe 3% for doing nothing.

But then some merchant services providers got the bright idea of nicking the markup by converting the currency at point of sale. They encourage retailers to "offer" it by giving them a kickback of part of the markup.

For customers with "normal" cards with a markup of about 3% or so it didn't make much difference as the DCC markup was originally about the same. Sometimes the DCC markup was less than the typical credit card markup, it seems to vary by country, seems to be quite cheap in Spain (maybe 2.5% and expensive in Poland (about 6%) last time I was there.

But now with any frequent traveller wise enough to use a commission fee card, and retailers and merchant services providers getting greedy and sometimes having DCC markups around 6% or more, the difference between DCC and non DCC (tiny VISA/Mastercard markup) can be massive. And of course that encourages retailers to impose it rather than doing as they're required, ie to ask and only convert if they customer agrees.

etienneg

Sadly for the OP, I think this is like signing a contract without reading it, when you are deemed to have agreed to whatever it says. Entering a PIN without seeing an amount and currency in the terminal window means you are deemed to have agreed to whatever the merchant had previously entered. I'm afraid there are unscrupulous merchants out there who will make a bit extra by this sort of deviousness. But, in practical terms, trying to fight it after the event is pointless.

So, best to accept it this time, learn from the mistake for the future, and move on.

Peter_Parsons

Carrot007 said:

Peter_Parsons said:

Carrot007 said:

Yes all went as planned.

Only fault is you and the merchant.  The card company or mastercard cannot help.

If is likely the merchant is in on it and does it that way for a kickback. Thoughh should allow you to choose on the machine. Of course in a different language it is not always easy. (and some may just do it becuase they think they are helping (or there boss told them that as they want the kickback)).

So blame where the blame is and move on.

There was no option to choose on the machine (for me, anyway). I speak enough of the local language to have been able to choose if I had been asked, which I wasn't.

I see no reason why the issuer and/or Mastercard can't cancel the original GBP transaction and recharge it in local currency (which I've always said I'd be happy to happen).

So then the terminal showed GBP, and you agreed to pay in GBP.

If you wanted local currency you should have handed the terminal back and explained that to them.

This is still complaining to the wrong place after the fact.

As I already pointed out, the terminal didn't show any currency. Had it shown GBP, I would most certainly have handed it back.

This is a credit card forum. I'm asking if others have found themselves in this situation and, if so, how they were able to resolve it.

zagfles

etienneg said:

Sadly for the OP, I think this is like signing a contract without reading it, when you are deemed to have agreed to whatever it says. Entering a PIN without seeing an amount and currency in the terminal window means you are deemed to have agreed to whatever the merchant had previously entered. I'm afraid there are unscrupulous merchants out there who will make a bit extra by this sort of deviousness. But, in practical terms, trying to fight it after the event is pointless.

So, best to accept it this time, learn from the mistake for the future, and move on.

No, it's like a contract being altered after it's been signed. Read the above Mastercard guide linked above in particular the bit I referenced.

zagfles

Peter_Parsons said:

Carrot007 said:

Peter_Parsons said:

Carrot007 said:

Yes all went as planned.

Only fault is you and the merchant.  The card company or mastercard cannot help.

If is likely the merchant is in on it and does it that way for a kickback. Thoughh should allow you to choose on the machine. Of course in a different language it is not always easy. (and some may just do it becuase they think they are helping (or there boss told them that as they want the kickback)).

So blame where the blame is and move on.

There was no option to choose on the machine (for me, anyway). I speak enough of the local language to have been able to choose if I had been asked, which I wasn't.

I see no reason why the issuer and/or Mastercard can't cancel the original GBP transaction and recharge it in local currency (which I've always said I'd be happy to happen).

So then the terminal showed GBP, and you agreed to pay in GBP.

If you wanted local currency you should have handed the terminal back and explained that to them.

This is still complaining to the wrong place after the fact.

As I already pointed out, the terminal didn't show any currency. Had it shown GBP, I would most certainly have handed it back.

This is a credit card forum. I'm asking if others have found themselves in this situation and, if so, how they were able to resolve it.

You may be able to claim from the DCC provider if you can find out who it is. See this example (aimed at merchants):

https://www.merchanthub.com/dynamic_currency_conversion

and I've seem similar elsewhere from DCC providers.

"Benefits For Your Cardholders

    - Cardholders know exactly how much they're paying in their own currency
    - No hidden fees or surprises on their card statement
    - Competitive exchange rates
    - Available for card-present, card-not- present and online transactions
    - Our Best Rate Guarantee; in the unlikely event that your customer would have been charged a cheaper rate by their card issuer, Elavon will refund the difference."

[Deleted User]

Did you get something that has the GBP value on it?

Hotel invoice or payment terminal receipt ?

born_again

zagfles said:

etienneg said:

Sadly for the OP, I think this is like signing a contract without reading it, when you are deemed to have agreed to whatever it says. Entering a PIN without seeing an amount and currency in the terminal window means you are deemed to have agreed to whatever the merchant had previously entered. I'm afraid there are unscrupulous merchants out there who will make a bit extra by this sort of deviousness. But, in practical terms, trying to fight it after the event is pointless.

So, best to accept it this time, learn from the mistake for the future, and move on.

No, it's like a contract being altered after it's been signed. Read the above Mastercard guide linked above in particular the bit I referenced.

>>> The Cardholder’s PIN provides confirmation and approval of the transaction that is about to take place and should therefore always be the last step in the transaction. It is best practice that a POS terminal screen should clearly state the option of DCC prior to the Cardholder entering their PIN, and that it should then prompt them to choose either the local currency or their billing currency for the transaction. This avoids any confusion or disappointment on the part of the Cardholder.<<<

The OP has not said anything other than there was nothing showing on screen when they entered their PIN.
Which is clear from the above (which is what you linked too) that entering your PIN is confirmation & approval of the transaction. Never seen a terminal where a PIN is entered before the amount.

Peter_Parsons

Deleted User said:

Did you get something that has the GBP value on it?

Hotel invoice or payment terminal receipt ?

Yes, I got a receipt afterwards showing GBP, which was what then triggered an hour-long argument with the hotel front desk which I tried, unsuccessfully, to get them to reverse the transaction and bill me correctly. They simply refused to, claiming it was impossible for them to do so, and told me to take it up with my card issuer, which I have done.

Peter_Parsons

born_again said:

zagfles said:

etienneg said:

Sadly for the OP, I think this is like signing a contract without reading it, when you are deemed to have agreed to whatever it says. Entering a PIN without seeing an amount and currency in the terminal window means you are deemed to have agreed to whatever the merchant had previously entered. I'm afraid there are unscrupulous merchants out there who will make a bit extra by this sort of deviousness. But, in practical terms, trying to fight it after the event is pointless.

So, best to accept it this time, learn from the mistake for the future, and move on.

No, it's like a contract being altered after it's been signed. Read the above Mastercard guide linked above in particular the bit I referenced.

>>> The Cardholder’s PIN provides confirmation and approval of the transaction that is about to take place and should therefore always be the last step in the transaction. It is best practice that a POS terminal screen should clearly state the option of DCC prior to the Cardholder entering their PIN, and that it should then prompt them to choose either the local currency or their billing currency for the transaction. This avoids any confusion or disappointment on the part of the Cardholder.<<<

The OP has not said anything other than there was nothing showing on screen when they entered their PIN.
Which is clear from the above (which is what you linked too) that entering your PIN is confirmation & approval of the transaction. Never seen a terminal where a PIN is entered before the amount.

I suspect that the amount was showing - on the check-in agent's screen, hidden from my view so I could not see what was going on.