Charged in GBP without my agreement, card issuer and Mastercard refuse to fix it, any ideas?

Neruda

Search the forum. Certainly five years ago you did have redress but I cannot remember the details.

zagfles

Get back onto your bank and demand a chargeback, they have a specific chargeback code for DCC applied without consent. Hopefully you'll get someone who knows what they're doing (rarity in bank call centres theses days).

See https://www.mastercard.com/elearning/dcc/docs/DCC Guide 20.02.17 EN.pdf and in particular case study 2 on p.26. It is common for POS terminals to ask for currency after the PIN has been entered despite it being non complaint with Mastercard rules.

When I was last in Spain almost every restaurant had POS terminals which asked the currency after entering the PIN. The trick I found was to keep hold of the terminal after entering the PIN, it then asks the currency, and you usually have to say no to DCC twice (when you say "no" it asks "are you sure").

Peter_Parsons

zagfles said:

Get back onto your bank and demand a chargeback, they have a specific chargeback code for DCC applied without consent. Hopefully you'll get someone who knows what they're doing (rarity in bank call centres theses days).

See https://www.mastercard.com/elearning/dcc/docs/DCC Guide 20.02.17 EN.pdf and in particular case study 2 on p.26. It is common for POS terminals to ask for currency after the PIN has been entered despite it being non complaint with Mastercard rules.

When I was last in Spain almost every restaurant had POS terminals which asked the currency after entering the PIN. The trick I found was to keep hold of the terminal after entering the PIN, it then asks the currency, and you usually have to say no to DCC twice (when you say "no" it asks "are you sure").

Thanks for the presentation. I'll have a read of it. I've already requested a chargeback and had it refused by both Mastercard and my bank.

Peter_Parsons

Had a quick scan through and it is absolutely clear that the merchant did not follow the Mastercard rules.

wolvoman

Why on earth does DCC even exist? What possible benefit does it bring to consumers?

Thrugelmir

Peter_Parsons said:

Had a quick scan through and it is absolutely clear that the merchant did not follow the Mastercard rules.

Now you've got to prove it. Your word against their's. 

Carrot007

Peter_Parsons said:

Carrot007 said:

Yes all went as planned.

Only fault is you and the merchant.  The card company or mastercard cannot help.

If is likely the merchant is in on it and does it that way for a kickback. Thoughh should allow you to choose on the machine. Of course in a different language it is not always easy. (and some may just do it becuase they think they are helping (or there boss told them that as they want the kickback)).

So blame where the blame is and move on.

There was no option to choose on the machine (for me, anyway). I speak enough of the local language to have been able to choose if I had been asked, which I wasn't.

I see no reason why the issuer and/or Mastercard can't cancel the original GBP transaction and recharge it in local currency (which I've always said I'd be happy to happen).

So then the terminal showed GBP, and you agreed to pay in GBP.

If you wanted local currency you should have handed the terminal back and explained that to them.

This is still complaining to the wrong place after the fact.

Ebe_Scrooge

wolvoman said:

Why on earth does DCC even exist? What possible benefit does it bring to consumers?

There's a couple of "claimed" benefits.  Firstly, the customer can see what they're actually paying, in their "home" currency, without having to wait until the credit card bill arrives.  And, for business users, they can submit their expense claims more quickly because, again, they don't have to wait until the statement arrives before they can submit their expenses.  But overall the benefit is to the merchant, as they can make a profit by using a more unfavourable (for the customer) exchange rate.

born_again

Peter_Parsons said:

IanManc said:

Peter_Parsons said:

Carrot007 said:

Yes all went as planned.

Only fault is you and the merchant.  The card company or mastercard cannot help.

If is likely the merchant is in on it and does it that way for a kickback. Thoughh should allow you to choose on the machine. Of course in a different language it is not always easy. (and some may just do it becuase they think they are helping (or there boss told them that as they want the kickback)).

So blame where the blame is and move on.

There was no option to choose on the machine (for me, anyway). I speak enough of the local language to have been able to choose if I had been asked, which I wasn't.

I see no reason why the issuer and/or Mastercard can't cancel the original GBP transaction and recharge it in local currency (which I've always said I'd be happy to happen).

I can see a reason - when Mastercard investigate, the hotel which didn't offer you the choice of paying in the local currency or sterling when they should have done will say that they did offer you the choice and that you chose sterling.

Mastercard are saying that because I used my PIN, I must have agreed to the currency, which is not true.

By entering your PIN, you are agreeing to the amount & currency. If as you said nothing was displayed. Then you should not have entered your PIN. 
Any error sits squarely with the retailer, as they enter  the data for you to approve.

 To dispute you need to prove that you agreed to the amount & currency, but given you entered you PIN on the transaction, which is you authorising the payment. I can only see it will fail. A invoice will not suffice. You would need the terminal receipt that shows the amount & currency used. Which is clearly going to be the same as you were charged.

zagfles

Ebe_Scrooge said:

wolvoman said:

Why on earth does DCC even exist? What possible benefit does it bring to consumers?

There's a couple of "claimed" benefits.  Firstly, the customer can see what they're actually paying, in their "home" currency, without having to wait until the credit card bill arrives.  And, for business users, they can submit their expense claims more quickly because, again, they don't have to wait until the statement arrives before they can submit their expenses.  But overall the benefit is to the merchant, as they can make a profit by using a more unfavourable (for the customer) exchange rate.

Indeed. It was invented because the currency conversion markup is very lucrative for whoever does it, as it's a way to charge customers without them noticing. Normally VISA or MasterCard will convert the currency with a small markup (maybe 0.5% or less) and the credit card provider will add an additional markup of maybe 3% for doing nothing.

But then some merchant services providers got the bright idea of nicking the markup by converting the currency at point of sale. They encourage retailers to "offer" it by giving them a kickback of part of the markup.

For customers with "normal" cards with a markup of about 3% or so it didn't make much difference as the DCC markup was originally about the same. Sometimes the DCC markup was less than the typical credit card markup, it seems to vary by country, seems to be quite cheap in Spain (maybe 2.5% and expensive in Poland (about 6%) last time I was there.

But now with any frequent traveller wise enough to use a commission fee card, and retailers and merchant services providers getting greedy and sometimes having DCC markups around 6% or more, the difference between DCC and non DCC (tiny VISA/Mastercard markup) can be massive. And of course that encourages retailers to impose it rather than doing as they're required, ie to ask and only convert if they customer agrees.