Amazon refund dispute

Basjoe

Crikey, you're right ! Thanks for pointing it out. I was getting confused, getting Warehouse mixed up with Marketplace. Warehouse is where I ordered the phone from. Amazon by any other name. Sorry for misleading or confusing the readers of this thread. I've edited the offending entry.

Basjoe

greyteam1959

What about shipping weights ??
If Amazon sent you a delivery weighing say 900g & you sent back a return weighing 900g then you sent back what you received.
Might be worth following up ??

sheramber

Was teh box a sealed cardboard box that you had to tear a strip to open?

Did it have Amazon branded tape around it?

That would  eliminate the courier from suspicion. 

[Deleted User]

Basjoe said:

Unfortunately I do not have access to Amazon Warehouse's procedures that miraculously determine with 100% certainty that the phone was in the box - I just have to take their word for it. They are obviously also very reliant on the honesty of their couriers, and once again I am not allowed to question this.

It’s one of them situations where you have to accept they are telling the truth  about it been in the box when it was sent, however you are saying different. Amazon don’t know whether you are just trying to say it wasn’t there to get a refund and to keep the phone. (Im not saying you are doing this by the way). So it’s a situation where neither of you can prove either way. I can’t see you getting anywhere to be fair. 

Basjoe

I don't think the Amazon parcel had a shipping weight on it - it was delivered by an Amazon courier, otherwise that could have been a clincher. Thanks for the suggestion anyway. The phone came in a well-packed cardboard box, sealed with their branded sticky tape. I've no idea how easy or hard it is to get hold of that sticky tape, so can't really comment on theft opportunities within the Amazon supply chain.

That ought to be more of a concern to them than to me really. The phone was stolen from them. I didn't receive it because it wasn't in the box. However, proof seems to be the big issue here. I'll correspond with Citizen's Advice when I've got some more time next week.

I'm not minded to use Section 75 because it is a blunt instrument that calls into question or a least focusses on their financial propriety. I can well imagine them taking umbrage at that route, and I would not be surprised to be blacklisted, at least for a while.

The Financial Ombudsman has a slightly different focus, but action takes a glacial amount of time.

The Small Claims Court seems on the face of it to be the best fit. I would hope that the Court can compel the release of the Chat dialogue records held by Amazon, where an Amazon Account Specialist states that if I return what I have, then a refund will be forthcoming within 7 days. I would also hope that the Court can compel the release of the phone's IMEI number, so that it can be registered as stolen thus rendering it useless.

Basjoe

born_again

Basjoe said:

I'm not minded to use Section 75 because it is a blunt instrument that calls into question or a least focusses on their financial propriety. I can well imagine them taking umbrage at that route, and I would not be surprised to be blacklisted, at least for a while.

Basjoe

Very few S75 cases actually have any retailer contact. Even the one's that do is more of a attempt at the bank putting pressure on the retailer to resolve. As S75 it is dealt with & paid out by the card company. Financially this would have zero impact on Amazon.

Basjoe

Thank you for born_again, that is useful information. Does anyone else share this perspective ? Some were implying that if I took this route then Amazon would be automatically affronted and blacklist me. If this is not the case then S75 will rise to the top of my options.

Basjoe

68ComebackSpecial

MarkN88 said:

Basjoe said:

Unfortunately I do not have access to Amazon Warehouse's procedures that miraculously determine with 100% certainty that the phone was in the box - I just have to take their word for it. They are obviously also very reliant on the honesty of their couriers, and once again I am not allowed to question this.

It’s one of them situations where you have to accept they are telling the truth  about it been in the box when it was sent, however you are saying different. Amazon don’t know whether you are just trying to say it wasn’t there to get a refund and to keep the phone. (Im not saying you are doing this by the way). So it’s a situation where neither of you can prove either way. I can’t see you getting anywhere to be fair. 

I wouldn't necessarily agree with this having received an item which 1) was not in the condition described 2) still contained a handwritten note from the original purchaser - both of which suggest a lack of care in the warehouse returns process before it is put back on the shelf ready for resale.

Carrot007

68ComebackSpecial said:

MarkN88 said:

Basjoe said:

Unfortunately I do not have access to Amazon Warehouse's procedures that miraculously determine with 100% certainty that the phone was in the box - I just have to take their word for it. They are obviously also very reliant on the honesty of their couriers, and once again I am not allowed to question this.

It’s one of them situations where you have to accept they are telling the truth  about it been in the box when it was sent, however you are saying different. Amazon don’t know whether you are just trying to say it wasn’t there to get a refund and to keep the phone. (Im not saying you are doing this by the way). So it’s a situation where neither of you can prove either way. I can’t see you getting anywhere to be fair. 

I wouldn't necessarily agree with this having received an item which 1) was not in the condition described 2) still contained a handwritten note from the original purchaser - both of which suggest a lack of care in the warehouse returns process before it is put back on the shelf ready for resale.

Both of which as I have said are very diffent from from a missing item. I agree AW are lax. I would never use them for tech anymore as it's just an enevitable return from a scammer. However it has never had a missing item. These people are idiots, not blind.

pbartlett

Basjoe said:

Thank you for born_again, that is useful information. Does anyone else share this perspective ? Some were implying that if I took this route then Amazon would be automatically affronted and blacklist me. If this is not the case then S75 will rise to the top of my options.

Basjoe

A chargeback would definitely cause affront to Amazon - the money would be taken out of their account.

For S75, the money comes from the card company, so Amazon would be less likely to be affronted. It may be that the card company contacts Amazon to hear their side of the story, but who knows, it is a roulette wheel, but if they do Amazon may still be a bit affronted, but maybe not enough to close your account with them.