Boiler Wiring Query

Section62

Jeepers_Creepers said:

...But I doubt that's necessary. Daft scenario - boiler goes faulty and up in flames - phew, thanks goodness for the extra isolator...

Alternative scenario... person fault-finding on boiler receives electric shock.  Can you just flip the highly visible isolator within sight of the boiler, or do you have to go running round the house looking for it?

Because an isolator above a bathroom door is obvs for the boiler, isn't it?

And why did the person get the shock in the first place?  Well possibly because they couldn't be bothered to walk all the way from the boiler into a different room to flip the isolator.

(someone fully conversant with the regs might know what they say about isolators fitted over 1.8m high and above a doorway, it doesn't feel like a great location myself)

Jeepers_Creepers said:

I suspect the surveyor just checked the wiring, saw that the isolator was in a different room and not adjacent to the boiler, noted that there was a wall socket nearby, and put 1 and 1 together to come up with 'trunking'!

If Danny had been paying for this out of his own pocket, then there's every chance that his installer's sparky would have come up with an alternative like this, because a visible flexi cable, trunked or not, going to - and permanently taking up - a wall socket is just poor, poor, poor.

The impression I got from the OP's first post is they will be fitting the supply as a spur off that socket, rather than using flex and a plug - although on re-reading there isn't enough info in the posts to be able to tell either way.  A spur would be the more obvious choice though.

The elephant in the room is how does the power get from a FCU located above the bathroom door to a cable emerging upwards from behind kitchen cabinets.  The FCU is obviously not on the wall immediately behind the boiler, which implies the cable run has to have both horizontal and vertical legs, and is taking an unusual route... maybe there is something about that which the boiler installer is concerned about?

Also, (and perhaps the OP can confirm) the white cable below the boiler possibly looks like round flex, rather than T&E. If it is flex, then the question is how is that connected to the supply?  Is there an inaccessible connection behind the kitchen cabinets?


Danny30, do you have any sockets below the worktop level, for example to connect a washing machine?  A compromise might be to wire a spur from one of those and run the cable up through the gap where the pipes are, thus avoiding the need for visible trunking on the wall.  A picture of the whole kitchen showing the boiler locating in context would also help.

Jeepers_Creepers

Section62 said:

Alternative scenario... person fault-finding on boiler receives electric shock.  Can you just flip the highly visible isolator within sight of the boiler, or do you have to go running round the house looking for it?

Because an isolator above a bathroom door is obvs for the boiler, isn't it?

And why did the person get the shock in the first place?  Well possibly because they couldn't be bothered to walk all the way from the boiler into a different room to flip the isolator.

Absolutely. But you misunderstood - I was talking about retaining both isolators in series. If the boiler goes up in flames, then you'd go to the existing one to isolate the supply, and not to the one inside the boiler cupboard.

I totally accept that the installers wouldn't just continue with only the existing isolator - they'd be breaching the guidance shown.

Good point about there possibly being a power source under the units. I wonder if these guys would go to the bother, tho'? Def worth an ask.

Danny - are there appliances under the worktop in that area?

Another_Level

Flex can be seen in the first photos, It may be run continuously from the fused spur above the door to the boiler or it may be different. The installer has seen it maybe not be interested in checking it out for suitability, they are only paid to exchange the boiler and any agreed  associated work.
Under many 'schemes' the existing water,gas & electrical system is expected to be 100% suitable.

The boiler installer has to take some responsibility !  Is the installer asking for a financial contribution towards the necessary compliant wiring upgrade ?.

Working under those 'schemes' often the installer does not get well remunerated, exchanging 2 boilers a day is often the norm.

Other installers may have a different approach, i think the installers advice is Ok.

Anyway hope you get it all sorted out 

Danny30

There is a double oven beneath the cooker to the left of the boiler. Will try and send a video later to show everything. 

Jeepers_Creepers

Danny, the contracted installers will do as they feel best, and will be very unlikely to entertain an alternative if it causes them more work or takes more time; you are not paying them, after all. They are working on a fixed sum for this job, and will want to get it done as quickly as possible. That is understandable. They are likely so pushed for time, that 'pride in their work' often takes a back seat.

So, all you can do is ask if they'd consider fitting an isolator inside the cupboard - either supplied by the existing cable, or else by a spur off the cooker cable (or whatever else is under there) - instead of the trunking going to the wall visible socket - pleeeeez.

If they say 'Non', then just insist they cause no visible damage as you will be getting a sparky out later to redo this part. Make sure they do not cut back the existing supply cable, as there's a very good chance you'll be using that.

neilmcl

Danny30 said:

That just looks wrong to me. Was it a British Gas install originally?

Why didn't they install it in the space directly under the boiler.

Danny30

neilmcl said:

Danny30 said:

That just looks wrong to me. Was it a British Gas install originally?

Why didn't they install it in the space directly under the boiler.

I'm not sure. It was British gas who installed it around 10 years ago so maybe the regulations were different at the time? 

Section62

Danny30 said:

I'm not sure. It was British gas who installed it around 10 years ago so maybe the regulations were different at the time? 

Was there something in that position before the boiler installation work?  For example, was there an electric heater or electric shower in the bathroom, or did the bathroom have an airing cupboard containing the boiler and/or an immersion heater?

Any of those could explain having an isolation switch just outside the bathroom.  But as an isolation point for a boiler in a completely different room it doesn't make much sense.  I'm not surprised the current installer is not happy to use that when there is an arguably better supply much closer to the boiler.

Is there a particular reason why you want the boiler to be on a separate circuit?  I've done that myself a few times, but only because I had planned a lot of further work on the ring mains and didn't want the heating turned off every time I was doing work.

Perhaps if the installer understood why you wanted the separate circuit they could reassure you, or find a way to do it. Although I do agree with others that they are more likely to want to keep the job as simple as possible and you may need to employ an electrician separately to get exactly what you want.

Jeepers_Creepers

I think Danny just wants to avoid an eyesore - as would I.

Trunking or dangling flex going to a wall socket is pants.

Section62

Jeepers_Creepers said:

I think Danny just wants to avoid an eyesore - as would I.

Trunking or dangling flex going to a wall socket is pants.

I was referring to the first half of this sentence, and wondering if there was a valid reason (not yet discussed) other than aesthetics...

Danny30 said:

I would prefer a separate circuit for the boiler like we already have and also don't really want trunking going from the socket to the boiler. 

...I agree with the views on trunking and flex, but if you get something for free or heavily discounted there is a limit in what you can expect in terms of looks.  However, if there is a technical or functional reason for a request, that might carry more weight with the decision maker(s).

E.g. if someone is vulnerable and at risk if the heating trips out, a valid argument might be made that partial mitigation could be achieved by supplying the boiler from a circuit which is less likely to trip due to a fault or overload.  The presence of water, along with multiple high-load cooking/heating appliances, arguably makes a kitchen ring one of the more high risk (of tripping) circuits in the home. As a further example, I personally wouldn't put any sensitive electronic equipment on the same circuit which a microwave is plugged into, even though I doubt the regs would mention anything about that.