Boiler Wiring Query

Danny30

Hi, I am getting a boiler installed through the Warmer Home Scheme but I am not happy with the proposed plan for the wiring and just wanted to ask for advise before getting back to them. 

We had our home rewired last year and the boiler in the kitchen has been wired in its own circuit via a wire going behind the kitchen units to the fuse board.
The fuse for the boiler is above the downstairs toilet door (See images).

The installer is saying that we have to have the fuse for the boiler right near the boiler and that they want to connect the boiler power/fuse to the socket outlet nearest the boiler using trunking.

I would prefer a separate circuit for the boiler like we already have and also don't really want trunking going from the socket to the boiler. 

My question to anyone who may know the regulations is does the boiler fuse have to be within a certain distance from the boiler? And do I have to connect the boiler via my socket outlet.

tacpot12

Is the new boiler going in the same place as the old boiler?  

If so, I can't see why they need to make any change apart from them being concerned that the cable isn't too short to make the connection. 

I had a new boiler installed recently and the installer installed a 3 pole fan isolator between the original fused spur and the boiler. This would be an option if they have any concern about not having enough cable.

Danny30

tacpot12 said:

Is the new boiler going in the same place as the old boiler?  

Yes, the same place. Just doesn't seem right that the boiler has to be wired right next to the boiler using the ring main. Many people surely run a wire from the boiler to the fuse box which would be at a different location. 

T_J_A_8691

The 3amp fuse spur does not need to be near the Boiler.

You will need an Electrical isolation switch next to the Boiler for servicing purposes etc (Manufacture instructions)

There is no Legal requirement to have the supply via a socket next to your Boiler.

Danny30

T_J_A_8691 said:

The 3amp fuse spur does not need to be near the Boiler.

You will need an Electrical isolation switch next to the Boiler for servicing purposes etc (Manufacture instructions)

There is no Legal requirement to have the supply via a socket next to your Boiler.

So presumably I could use the existing boiler wire to connect the New boiler to the fuse box? 

But I would need trunking for the isolation switch near the socket? 

Jeepers_Creepers

Hi Danny.

I don't know, but I just had a look at the installation instructions for a typical new boiler - a WB combi. It says:

"The mains electrical supply to the appliance must be through either a
fused double pole isolator or a fused three pin plug and unswitched
socket.
• The isolator shall be situated next to the appliance for new systems
and, where practicable, replacement appliances."

Yours is a replacement, and I think you'd find that some installers would be aesthetically sympathetic and wire it the same as the current boiler, whilst others would be complete pedants and insist on some beautiful trunking which always add an air of sophistication to any room.

To answer your Q, does it have to be powered from that adjacent socket? Not if you can argue it ain't practicable. I fear you cannot argue this...

So, any conforming alternatives? Yes, I can't see why the existing supply cable cannot be taken to a surface-mounted double-pole isolator or even a single DP socket (or unswitched socket) fitted inside that cupboard, and hence to the new boiler. Jobbie double-jobbed.

The problem you'll likely have is, installers doing jobs for the Warmer Home Scheme just want to horse the boiler in as quickly and easily as possible, and move on to the next one.

I think what I would do is, first ask them nicely if they'd fit this DP switch or socket inside the boiler cupboard, and supplied by the existing wiring. If they say 'Non', then make sure that (a) they do not drill any holes in your cupboard in order to get the cable to that wall socket (remove the cupboard door if they insist they cannot have the door being closed on the cable...), (b) ditto that they only use self-adhesive trunking and no screws - 'cos you are going to be ripping it all out as soon as they have gorn, and (c) they do not cut the old cable short as it comes into that cupboard, but simply terminate it safely - you are going to be using that.

Then you call in your friendly local sparky for a 30-minute jobbie.

Or DIY it... See the cable they fit to that wall socket? It'll have a normal 13A plugtop at t'end. That will be plugged into the new inside-cupboard socket instead.

Danny30

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Hi Danny.

I don't know, but I just had a look at the installation instructions for a typical new boiler - a WB combi. It says:

"The mains electrical supply to the appliance must be through either a
fused double pole isolator or a fused three pin plug and unswitched
socket.
• The isolator shall be situated next to the appliance for new systems
and, where practicable, replacement appliances."

Yours is a replacement, and I think you'd find that some installers would be aesthetically sympathetic and wire it the same as the current boiler, whilst others would be complete pedants and insist on some beautiful trunking which always add an air of sophistication to any room.

To answer your Q, does it have to be powered from that adjacent socket? Not if you can argue it ain't practicable. I fear you cannot argue this...

So, any conforming alternatives? Yes, I can't see why the existing supply cable cannot be taken to a surface-mounted double-pole isolator or even a single DP socket (or unswitched socket) fitted inside that cupboard, and hence to the new boiler. Jobbie double-jobbed.

The problem you'll likely have is, installers doing jobs for the Warmer Home Scheme just want to horse the boiler in as quickly and easily as possible, and move on to the next one.

I think what I would do is, first ask them nicely if they'd fit this DP switch or socket inside the boiler cupboard, and supplied by the existing wiring. If they say 'Non', then make sure that (a) they do not drill any holes in your cupboard in order to get the cable to that wall socket (remove the cupboard door if they insist they cannot have the door being closed on the cable...), (b) ditto that they only use self-adhesive trunking and no screws - 'cos you are going to be ripping it all out as soon as they have gorn, and (c) they do not cut the old cable short as it comes into that cupboard, but simply terminate it safely - you are going to be using that.

Then you call in your friendly local sparky for a 30-minute jobbie.

Or DIY it... See the cable they fit to that wall socket? It'll have a normal 13A plugtop at t'end. That will be plugged into the new inside-cupboard socket instead.

Wow, thank you so much for that.

Would they not still have to break the tiling in the kitchen to feed a wire to the ring main socket? 

Jeepers_Creepers

Danny30 said:

Wow, thank you so much for that.

Would they not still have to break the tiling in the kitchen to feed a wire to the ring main socket? 

No tiles need breaking as far as I can see.

If they follow their own plan, then all they need to do is surface-run the cable to a plugtop that's plugged in to that kitchen socket. They say they want to run this inside trunking, so - if they insist on this - make sure it's self-adhesive trunking (which it likely will be) so you can pull it off afterwards. No tiles are broken.

To be fair to them, they are following the rools, which says 'the isolator should be mounted next to the boiler if it can be'.

However, I don't see any reason why the existing power cable, which is coming up into your boiler cupboard, cannot be used instead. It would need connecting to a surface-mounted socket inside that unit, say on the LH side near the bottom of the cupboard just below the boiler. The boiler then plugs into this, so no visible cables at all coming out of the cupboard.

This is not a big ask - it won't take them any longer to fit this isolator/socket than cut a piece of trunking.

Another issue is the boiler controls. Any idea what they have planned? Are they wireless? What do you currently have? What's that BGas thing to the right of the isolator? How is that wired?

Another_Level

Why was the fused spur for the boiler installed in that position ?  As already well mentioned a suitable isolation switch adjacent to the boiler is required.
The boiler survey person has seen your property. They may have thought they could encounter other electrical problems and that their offer of work will be electrically correct and no last minute changes will be needed on boiler exchange day.

Other scheme installers could have a different idea 

Off topic, yet another not that ancient WB for the skip 

Preview

Danny30

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Danny30 said:

Wow, thank you so much for that.

Would they not still have to break the tiling in the kitchen to feed a wire to the ring main socket? 

No tiles need breaking as far as I can see.

If they follow their own plan, then all they need to do is surface-run the cable to a plugtop that's plugged in to that kitchen socket. They say they want to run this inside trunking, so - if they insist on this - make sure it's self-adhesive trunking (which it likely will be) so you can pull it off afterwards. No tiles are broken.

To be fair to them, they are following the rools, which says 'the isolator should be mounted next to the boiler if it can be'.

However, I don't see any reason why the existing power cable, which is coming up into your boiler cupboard, cannot be used instead. It would need connecting to a surface-mounted socket inside that unit, say on the LH side near the bottom of the cupboard just below the boiler. The boiler then plugs into this, so no visible cables at all coming out of the cupboard.

This is not a big ask - it won't take them any longer to fit this isolator/socket than cut a piece of trunking.

Another issue is the boiler controls. Any idea what they have planned? Are they wireless? What do you currently have? What's that BGas thing to the right of the isolator? How is that wired?

Thank you. They will be fitting a wireless control with no wires needed as the receiver is built into the boiler. Currently we have a thermostat but also a wired box receiver which will no longer be needed (the one in the picture next to the boiler fused socket above toilet door). 

grumbler

There is some wire coming to the boiler from the existing switch, isn't there?

There is some space in the boiler housing cupboard for a new switch, isn't there?

I don't understand, why on earth a new wire is needed - tell me, what exactly I am missing.