PCN for Marazion Long Stay and Overflow...

CosmonautX

Hi - hope this will be OK to post. Have looked through the various FAQs, but what I'm looking for here is some help from people with local knowledge/access to Marazion.

We returned from a trip to Cornwall to find a PCN from Initial Parking for an alleged infraction at the Marazion Long Stay & Overflow (the large field on the right as you head down the beach out of the town). We parked there, noted the signage that said payment could be made at any time during our stay, visited the beach and town, then returned to the car park. We entered our vehicle reg on the machine, paid the indicated amount by contactless, took the receipt and left. As far as we could see, the car park operated like most of the other pay-at-any-time car parks in Cornwall where you are charged for the amount of time you have stayed, and that process was automatic. We have kept our payment receipt and have a copy of the statement for the card used. 

However, before raising an appeal, I wanted to make sure we had done everything correctly and that we have photos of the signage and the machine fronts with instructions in hand, and I hoped someone might be local, or there might be copies of the signage and machine instructions online here. I couldn't spot anything with a forum search, but I may have missed something. 

As we're now back in Scotland, there is no way for us to simply pop along and get photos or video ourselves. We're not going to be noting the driver of the vehicle in any response to IP, or a further appeal to POPLA, but we'd like to be in a decent position to appeal with as much information as we can provide. Any help would be hugely appreciated - even if it's just to tell us we messed up somewhere!

Redx

You do realise that there is no keeper liability in Scotland yet , no POFA , so a keeper has no legal liability 

Fistral beach tends to come up a lot , but not what you said , unless it's the same place ??

What is the alleged contravention ??

Did the NTK fail to comply with POFA or did it comply in dates and wording anyway ? Regardless of it being Scotland ??

Most private car parks tend to be pay within 5 minutes of entry , not pay on exit , even in Cornwall , it's a method of entrapment !!

Was the correct VRM entered ?

KeithP

What is the 'alleged infraction' that Initial are claiming?

CosmonautX

I wasn't sure of the legal liability in Scotland - TBH, there's a little temptation to simply ignore the whole thing and assume that the legal hassle of IP pursuing us will be too much for them to bother with, but I'd rather deal with it and appeal properly. re: POFA compliance - as far as I can see, their PCN complies, but happy to post a copy with our personal info redacted.

Not sure about Fistral Beach - not entirely familiar with the local area, but as you drive out of Marazion and past the slipways, there is a large car park on the left. If you pass that, there is an overflow further down on the right that appears to be known as Marazion Long Stay & Overflow (possibly locally as Folly Field/Folleyfield?)

The signage all had "pay at any point in the duration of your stay" wording, and it was one of several car parks we'd visited in Cornwall that had similar wording. 

Alleged contravention is an overstay, and the registration they have on their PCN (and on our receipt) is the correct one for our vehicle. My assumption at the moment is that either (a) there was some kind of issue with the machine, or (b) user error on our part, and simply entering the reg and paying the displayed charge wasn't correct (though until we've seen photos of the machine frontage to check instructions etc. again we won't even hint at that in any discussion with IP). The PCN from IP is pretty useless boilerplate stuff, so we're working from memory and the photos we've found online of IP's signage in other Marazion car parks.

Redx

Try GSV for possible pictures of signage , because an alleged overstay should never happen on a pay on exit car park , unless the allowed grace period of 10 minutes to exit the car park was exceeded ?  Meaning you can't pay for 2 hours say , and then take half an hour to leave after payment is made

I would say it's a new location for us , so try Facebook groups in that area , Newquay has long been a group discussion area , especially on here and on pepipoo and on Facebook. 

Try trip advisor too

Standard advice for Scotland is ignore , especially if the claimant has complied with POFA had you been registered in England , which you are not

CosmonautX

Paid at 17:30, their systems have us leaving at 17:37, so within the grace period.

Streetview is a non-starter - from what I can see on one Marazion group, Initial Parking took over the car parks in Marazion within the last few months and Streetview isn't that up to date. There seem to have been issues with locals and tourists since IP took over too. I'll see if I can dig around for any more FB groups I can join in case there are locals who can take a phone and a few minutes to get some pictures, and I'll root around on Tripadvisor. 

Many thanks for the advice!

Redx

I am sure that more cases will turn up soon , from English or Welsh tourists , where POFA is an issue and ignore would not be recommended. Please come back with any information you obtain 

Coupon-mad

CosmonautX said:

Paid at 17:30, their systems have us leaving at 17:37, so within the grace period.

Streetview is a non-starter - from what I can see on one Marazion group, Initial Parking took over the car parks in Marazion within the last few months and Streetview isn't that up to date. There seem to have been issues with locals and tourists since IP took over too. I'll see if I can dig around for any more FB groups I can join in case there are locals who can take a phone and a few minutes to get some pictures, and I'll root around on Tripadvisor. 

Many thanks for the advice!

What time does the NTK have the car arriving? 

The BPA CoP since 2020 has a totally unfair and anti-consumer rights clause about consideration periods that basically says 'if you stay and pay, you have to automatically know that your time has started from the point you drove past the camera and not the time you parked'. 

In other words the BPA reckons that the consideration period (time allowed to drive in, find a space, park, gather your stuff and kids, walk over to a machine, read the terms and tariffs, download an app or find coins/pay by card) disappears in a puff of smoke the second a driver stays, and that the consideration period that USED to be stated by the BPA as in addition to the grace period, no longer is! 

A truly terrible and anti-motorist update to the CoP, that (thank goodness) the MHCLG haven't for a nano-second been persuaded by and the new draft Statutory CoP (which will also apply in Scotland next year) confirms a consideration period for arrival is in addition to the minimum ten minutes grace to leave.

POFA compliance - as far as I can see, their PCN complies.

But you are in Scotland and can't be legally bound by the POFA.  But nor can you meaningfully use POPLA so DON'T!!  Shockingly, in another clever/disingenuous (depending on how you look at it) move by the BPA, they extended POPLA to people in Scotland but it insists on the appellant declaring who the driver was. 

Completely unacceptable crap.  A way of getting a driver to declare something that the law doesn't require them to.  POPLA IS UNUSABLE FOR KEEPER APPELLANTS IN SCOTLAND.

Castle

Coupon-mad said:

But you are in Scotland and can't be legally bound by the POFA.  But nor can you meaningfully use POPLA so DON'T!!  Shockingly, in another clever/disingenuous (depending on how you look at it) move by the BPA, they extended POPLA to people in Scotland but it insists on the appellant declaring who the driver was. 

Completely unacceptable crap.  A way of getting a driver to declare something that the law doesn't require them to.  POPLA IS UNUSABLE FOR KEEPER APPELLANTS IN SCOTLAND.

I think that only applies to parking events which happen in Scotland.

CosmonautX

NTK has us arriving at ~14:33 (correct) and leaving at 17:37 (correct, as it took us a bit over five minutes to pay, get to the car, load up and leave). 

This is one of the signs from another car park managed by IP in Marazion just down the road from the one we used. Haven't found a photo of the machines or the sign in the car park we used, but I think this is pretty much what we remember being there. I see the "payment can be made at any time" wording is contradicted by the tiny print below the JustPark panel that reads "Payment must be made on arrival", though it's not clear whether that applies solely to drivers using JustPark, or whether it's meant for anyone using the car park regardless of payment method.

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Coupon-mad

Castle said:

Coupon-mad said:

But you are in Scotland and can't be legally bound by the POFA.  But nor can you meaningfully use POPLA so DON'T!!  Shockingly, in another clever/disingenuous (depending on how you look at it) move by the BPA, they extended POPLA to people in Scotland but it insists on the appellant declaring who the driver was. 

Completely unacceptable crap.  A way of getting a driver to declare something that the law doesn't require them to.  POPLA IS UNUSABLE FOR KEEPER APPELLANTS IN SCOTLAND.

I think that only applies to parking events which happen in Scotland.

You might be right, and if so, that proves how useless POPLA are because it means this OP can argue 'the POFA isn't a law that is applicable to me and my court area (Scotland) yet his next door neighbours with a PCN at a retail park locally, wouldn't be able to say that to POPLA.  Daft and unfair.