Can anyone comment on this boundary issue

Jeepers_Creepers

Tyler_Durden_UK said:

They have assumed its there's by putting plants on it, when they blocked paved their drive few years back they put concrete edging pieces around it, the issue I mentioned is to do with a piece of land of the other side that they claimed to have maintained for 20 years (untrue) they started parking vehicles and putting skips on the land and even fenced it in without getting planning permission, their attitude managed to p off all the neighbors and also the local council. When I spoke to her recently she claimed it was hers and always was

Who does that other land belong to? The council? If so, inform them - now.

How you tackle your piece is up to you, but it's clear now what you are dealing with - unreasonable, arrogant, and entitled twits.

This piece is so obviously yours, that it would almost be daft to consider going 'legal' with it. But, if you do have LegProt on your house insurance, then call them up in the first instance. (After you've shopped them to the other land owner.)

If you do not have LP, then it depends on how assertive you are - whether you are prepared to just tackle this, knowing you are on completely solid ground, or whether you hate confrontation so much that you can't face it. The latter is going to mean paying for legal action, and I'd suggest you want to avoid that, because knuckleheads like these sometimes just don't know when to stop.

The DIY approach is to print off a copy of your deeds, and accompany it with a brief letter explaining how concerned you were by their recent claim that this strips was somehow theirs, when they have no entitlement to it whatsoever; it is yours, always has been, and always will be. You are therefore giving them one week from X date to remove any plants they may have placed there, and the concrete border they put in without your permission.

You hand deliver this, with a witness present (who is holding their phone covertly on video record), and you also explain to the neighb verbally what's going on, because you want them to know the game is up, and also gauge their reaction. By also doing this face to face, you are showing them you are assertive, and not dropping a letter and running. You do this with utter calmness, very matter-of-fact, sticking to the essential information, and with a "I can't actually believe I'm having to say this" look, and you do not get drawn in to any arguments or discussions about it.

If they rant and argue - and they will - just stand there with your witness, staring them in the eyes, and with a barely-concealed smile on your lips - having you and your witness exchange an eye-roll is pretty effective too. When they stop, return to your mantra - "Uh-huh... There's the deeds, that is my land. Remove your plants and your border. I may not have been minded you putting a plant on my land before, but I certainly do now with your daft claim that it's yours!* You have one week in which to remove it all."

*(If you wish to have fun, substitute that bit with "You must be insane to think that's yours!" Get ready to stand back.

Turn, and walk away. Resist high-fiving or chest-bumping your witness.

If they react with any aggression or threat, you call the local police instantly. Explain that the actual border issue isn't a problem - they wouldn't get involved in this anyway or than perhaps giving the neighb some 'good advice' - but your concern is that, based on their behaviour, you genuinely anticipate them either reacting violently, or taking physical revenge.

After one week, if they haven't moved anything - and they won't - you dig up all their plants 'carefully' and leave them on their drive. You take photos to show this. You take a sledge hammer to their concrete border, unless it can be prised up 'neatly' and again place this on their drive. Again, photos to show you had no alternative but to break it up. Give the neighb back the rubble. Two reasons - one, it's theirs. Two, it'll p'them off. 

There is NOTHING they can do. They can threaten legal action until they are blue in the face. If they threaten anything else, you call the police. If they dump the rubble back on your drive, you call the police.

These folk need putting firmly back in their boxes. And the leviathan is the only thing they'll respond to. If they are told to behave by the police, they'd be nuts to then try anything.

You need to do this. Don't want to? Tough - this is your punishment for letting them walk over you. Turn this around.

Hopefully, at the same time you are doing this, the owner of the other piece of land will also be knocking on their door.

Silver_Shark

I agree with the above comment.  Give her a week to remove the plants and If she doesn't then tell her you are entitled to remove them from your land and you'll return them to her. Put it in writing with a copy of the deeds, deliver it to her but keep a copy of the letter for yourself. She may go to a solicitor if she really feels entitled to the land but let her do it.

grumbler

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Tyler_Durden_UK said:

They have assumed its there's by putting plants on it, when they blocked paved their drive few years back they put concrete edging pieces around it, the issue I mentioned is to do with a piece of land of the other side that they claimed to have maintained for 20 years (untrue) they started parking vehicles and putting skips on the land and even fenced it in without getting planning permission, their attitude managed to p off all the neighbors and also the local council. When I spoke to her recently she claimed it was hers and always was

The DIY approach is to print off a copy of your deeds

and their deeds

https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/copies-of-deeds

Personally, instead of breaking the concrete border and digging out the plants I'd start with marking the border with short concrete/steel posts and a chain. In the letter I'd suggest them to dig out the plants themselves if they need them.

Davesnave

Silver_Shark said:

 She may go to a solicitor if she really feels entitled to the land but let her do it.

I don't think there'd be any realistic way to prevent her, but that's what anyone would want to happen if the facts shown by the title plan are undeniable. Even solicitors will know when the position is untenable!

Silver_Shark

Davesnave said:

Silver_Shark said:

 She may go to a solicitor if she really feels entitled to the land but let her do it.

I don't think there'd be any realistic way to prevent her, but that's what anyone would want to happen if the facts shown by the title plan are undeniable. Even solicitors will know when the position is untenable!

The position may not be untenable.

I've been in a similar situation myself, given seven days by new neighbours to remove my dustbins from a piece of land sold to me, I'd bought a new build house. I had photographic evidence that I had been using that land for twenty years. My solicitor arranged for the small piece of land  to be transferred to me by means of an affidavit to vary the title deeds.

Jeepers_Creepers

There is no way on this planet - absolutely zero - that this neighb can prove that they had sole use of that strip for whatever time may be needed.

And they would have to prove this.

All Tyler has to maintain is that he pulled the weeds out of his patch too, and would sometimes park close to it, with his car door sweeping over that area. After all, he always considered it his land - it's both bleedin' obvious and in his deeds. He was bemused by the neighb's attention to it, and was happy to allow this if it made the neighb happy to keep that piece extra-tidy - after all, the neighb looks on to it too. "I thought it a bit weird at times, but didn't mind - if he wants to keep my patch tidy, then get on with it as it probably makes his frontage look better too. I wasn't going to be so churlish as to tell him off when you could even say he was doing me a favour as an unpaid gardener..."

Why didn't Tyler intervene before now? Why should he? It's his call when or whether to intervene - it's Tyler's bleedin' land, so he can do what he wants. If it made my neighb happy, then fair do's.

But - oh my - the neighb now thinks it's his?! Well, excoooooooz me! Don't be silly! Sigh - I'm now going to have to insist you go forth, and take your plants and concrete.

When I weed the pavement side of our garden wall, I continue down the front of my nice elderly neighbour's wall too without asking him, and stop dead when reaching my nasty neighb's area. I think it may be time I submitted a claim over my nice neighb's wall...

I know someone who takes out his elderly neighbs bins each fortnight. He just does it now - doesn't bother even asking. I might suggest to him he now has the right to that bin.

Ok, these are not comparable examples, but they do state the same principle; if you permit others to use or access a bit of your land, that's entirely your call and your right. If that person then tries to claim a right to this, then it's "don't be silly time. Go away."

Jeepers_Creepers

Silver_Shark said:

The position may not be untenable.

I've been in a similar situation myself, given seven days by new neighbours to remove my dustbins from a piece of land sold to me, I'd bought a new build house. I had photographic evidence that I had been using that land for twenty years. My solicitor arranged for the small piece of land  to be transferred to me by means of an affidavit to vary the title deeds.

That's interesting, SS.

This was a piece of land that you had actually bought ("a piece of land sold to me...")

You didn't claim and get this land through adverse possession?

All your solicitor actually did was to 'officially' add this piece - which you already owned - to your deeds?

If you did claim this through adverse possession, can I ask when this happened?

Thanks.

Silver_Shark

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Silver_Shark said:

The position may not be untenable.

I've been in a similar situation myself, given seven days by new neighbours to remove my dustbins from a piece of land sold to me, I'd bought a new build house. I had photographic evidence that I had been using that land for twenty years. My solicitor arranged for the small piece of land  to be transferred to me by means of an affidavit to vary the title deeds.

That's interesting, SS.

This was a piece of land that you had actually bought ("a piece of land sold to me...")

You didn't claim and get this land through adverse possession?

All your solicitor actually did was to 'officially' add this piece - which you already owned - to your deeds?

If you did claim this through adverse possession, can I ask when this happened?

Thanks.

I should have said "it was how it was sold to me" by the house builders. I had no reason to suspect the small piece of land  didn't belong to me. The piece of land was eventually transferred to me but at my expense by the new owners who raised the dispute. I certainly didn't deliberately acquire a small piece of a neighbour's land as in this case here. I'm sure you are correct JC in saying that this neighbour may not be able to prove they've had sole use of that strip of land for at least twelve years as I was able to do in my case.

Jeepers_Creepers

Silver_Shark said:

I should have said "it was how it was sold to me" by the house builders. I had no reason to suspect the small piece of land  didn't belong to me. The piece of land was eventually transferred to me but at my expense by the new owners who raised the dispute. I certainly didn't deliberately acquire a small piece of a neighbour's land as in this case here. I'm sure you are correct JC in saying that this neighbour may not be able to prove they've had sole use of that strip of land for at least twelve years as I was able to do in my case.

Thanks for the clarification, SS.

That's very interesting case indeed. When did this happen - fairly recently?

It would seem to have been a bit more 'secure' than a 'simple' case of adverse possession, since you were sold that land as part of your overall plot. It must have made your heart sink when it was disputed at the time of sale!

Just how difficult was it to sort in the end? Can I ask what sort of timescales and costs were involved? How much did the neighbour challenge this, or did they capitulate fairly quickly? Did you have LP on your house insurance, and were they good as their job?

Thanks.

grumbler

Guys, read the new law and stop discussing this nonsense with SS!
Even if  the neighbour can prove that he solely used it even for 50 years, he cannot get it transferred at any cost. Period.