Help with Noise from flat above from laminate flooring - Lease wording very vague

anselld

MohamedO said:

eddddy said:

MohamedO said:

My question more so is who is responsible for proving that the above leaseholder has used adequate sound absorbing materials underneath. I wonder this, because clearly they haven't used it from the noise produced when they walk on it.

The short answer is that if the parties can't reach agreement amongst themselves, then 'somebody' would have to take your upstairs neighbour to court - and hopefully get a court order telling them to put the problem right. (That assumes that the court agrees that the neighbour is breaching the lease.)

So...

• The freeholder could send letters to your neighbour, telling them to stop breaching their lease
• Then the freeholder's solicitor could send letters threatening legal action
• Then the freeholder could take your neighbour to court

Also, depending on what your lease says, you probably have one or both of the following options...

• If the freeholder won't do anything voluntarily, you can tell the freeholder to enforce the lease - i.e. tell them to follow the steps above
• But you would probably have to indemnify the freeholder against costs - e.g. if the freeholder loses in court, you have to pay their costs
• If the freeholder still refuses to get involved, you can take the freeholder to court (or there are other options)

Or....

• There may be a 'mutual enforceability clause' in your lease
• That means you can take your upstairs neighbour to court without involving the freeholder

Some leases might have other clauses that relate to settling disputes - like the Freeholder's surveyor determines whether the lease is breached. But if the neighbour refuses to do anything about it - it's still a case of going to court.

In your opinion would you consider wood flooring a suitable material as per the regulation in our lease? Thanks again. 

It is the choice of underlay which could potentially make wood flooring suitable or perhaps not in this case.

Grumpy_chap

Possibly too late already, but has the OP considered that these formal complaints will be a dispute that has to be declared come time to sell?

Sprinkly

My case has been accepted by the housing ombudsman regarding laminate flooring.  I'm not holding my breath to be honest with the outcome but they're looking at it and I will go with whatever outcome they decide.  

I checked out soundproofing for two room ceilings (concrete) the cost was £5347 in a tiny 10 x 8 roomed flat with a reputable company here in Manchester.    I spoke to the environmental health department and they advised against shelling out for this as I am liable to be disappointed in the effect it will have.  My ceilings are plasterboard which acts like a drum on top of concrete.    

You could ask for a sound test of the building.  Do sound recordings yourself.   My freeholder said the sound test passed building regulations E for sound transfer but they have no idea in actual reality what its like to be living underneath what I can only describe as a wooden table top on a daily basis never mind the excuses its normal noise, of course its normal noise but on wooden flooring. If more people complained and complained then perhaps something might get done.   

  

eddddy

Sprinkly said:

My case has been accepted by the housing ombudsman regarding laminate flooring.  I'm not holding my breath to be honest with the outcome but they're looking at it and I will go with whatever outcome they decide.  

  

Just for background interest - who is your complaint about, and what is your actual complaint?

The OP is complaining about another leaseholder, the complaint is that the other leaseholder is breaching their lease (by laying laminate flooring).


It sounds like your complaint is about your freeholder - maybe because you suspect that the building doesn't meet the building regulations for sound transfer and/or maybe the freeholder has laid some laminate flooring.


(And to avoid raising the OP's hopes - I believe that the Housing Ombudsman only deals with Social Landlords and private landlords who volunteer to join the scheme. So there's a good chance the OP's landlord isn't a member of the Housing Ombudsman scheme.)

MohamedO

Grumpy_chap said:

Possibly too late already, but has the OP considered that these formal complaints will be a dispute that has to be declared come time to sell?

Hi

Sadly yes, but because we have to live in it, we don't have much choice the noise is unbearable during the night. 

So far the struggle has become the fact that we cannot speak to the actual freeholder and we are stuck with chasing the building management, who are not helpful at all, considering how much they charge us a year. I think eventually we'll have no choice but to take this to county court.

kasqueak

Have you spoken to the neighbours upstairs? 

Try and resolve things between yourselves before getting official complaints involved. 

I think the clause in a lease of having to put carpet down in a flat is pretty common. However it is also commonly breached. I lived in a flat for years and the upstairs had laminate flooring. But the management company weren’t interested in it being a breach of the lease. Noise is also a very personal thing - you have to expect normal noise if you have someone living above you/below you in a flat. For some people that noise won’t bother them. For others it will. I’m very sensitive to noise but others aren’t. 

Personally I’d be having a chat with the neighbours before going down any other routes. They might not know that it’s causing you an issue if it wasn’t an issue for the previous owner etc.