Persimmons & Fibrenest? 15 July 2021 at 12:59PM in Broadband & internet access 24 replies 2.1K views

Yk2021

Hi,

I will be moving to a new persimmons home soon and  only avilable internet is Fibrenest. I understand Persimmons own Fibrenest and I am thinking of the future. Once Persimmons have finished the devlopment and leave the area, will there ever going to have other providers to install the cabling such as BT, Virgin media and so on. I dont mind paying fibrenest temporary but not permanent when other providers offer a better deal and package. Thank you

JJ_Egan

It depends upon how long Fibernests exclusive contract is for .That is what you need to find out before purchasing .

Open Reach will probably just connect to existing when free to , however many years down the line .

VM will probably not bother cabling one site .

Farway

This subject turns up fairly regularly, try searching using fibrenest in search box. here's a recent one https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5987719/persimmon-and-fibrenest/p1

iniltous

Nothing to do with how long the ‘exclusive’ Fibrenest period is, it depends on when the local council adopt the roads and footpaths, but, chances are those that want non mobile broadband will sign up with Fibrenest, and given the ( probably ) near 100% take up, any future network provider may be reluctant to install another network alongside ( much expense, no guarantee of take up ) so although it will be possible in a few years ( typical period before the council takes responsibility for the roads/paths ) I wouldn’t be optimistic that another provider will be keen to use the access under NRSWA that comes with adopted roads/paths …if the Government do to these company’s like Fibrenest ( or the company that own it ) what they have already done to Openreach and insist that the passive infrastructure ( ducts, underground chambers etc ) is opened up  to all providers , then another company may move in, otherwise IMHO , not much chance of an alternative , but because these builders locking out OR/Virgin and providing their own ‘network’ is quite a new thing, there are no examples or precedents, after the minimum term expires

KitKat_Shuffler

Yk2021 said:

 I dont mind paying fibrenest temporary but not permanent when other providers offer a better deal and package. Thank you

Fibrenest's FTTP pricing is fairly competitive, eg £14/m for a 20 Mbps service which is fine for emails and basic web browsing or £31/m for a 75 Mbps service. Not that different to the likes of BT, EE, Plusnet etc. Look on the bright side, at least you would be getting full fibre (FTTP), rather than a copper (adsl) or hybrid-copper (FTTC) solution from Openreach, which is not unheard of on new build estates. I'm sure many people would prefer being stuck with a single FTTP provider rather than have a choice of 700 CPs on Openreach copper...

iniltous

KitKat_Shuffler said:

Yk2021 said:

 I dont mind paying fibrenest temporary but not permanent when other providers offer a better deal and package. Thank you

Fibrenest's FTTP pricing is fairly competitive, eg £14/m for a 20 Mbps service which is fine for emails and basic web browsing or £31/m for a 75 Mbps service. Not that different to the likes of BT, EE, Plusnet etc. Look on the bright side, at least you would be getting full fibre (FTTP), rather than a copper (adsl) or hybrid-copper (FTTC) solution from Openreach, which is not unheard of on new build estates. I'm sure many people would prefer being stuck with a single FTTP provider rather than have a choice of 700 CPs on Openreach copper...

If ‘BT’ built a FTTP network in an area , and basically said , ‘You don’t have a choice, it’s us or no one’ , but the price was in line with other providers elsewhere, I’m sure you wouldn’t be so sanguine to the lack of competition , it’s true that the prices are reasonable and not much different to industry average, but what if the service turns out to be poor, unreliable, or over subscribed, or the customer service is poor , what’s the consumers alternative then ?
As far as non FTTP in new estates from Openreach, it’s been  the case for quite a while that any developments that request OR FTTP can have it,( at no cost ) so if you know of any ‘new’ developments that are getting copper pair infrastructure, that’s hardly OR’s fault is it ?, but I doubt you know of any , effectively the only new developments that are not getting OR FTTP,  with the choice of providers that come with that , are developments that are locking out OR to do a sweetheart deal with someone ( probably linked to the developers ) or small one man band  developers who haven’t approached OR 

KitKat_Shuffler

iniltous said:

KitKat_Shuffler said:

Yk2021 said:

 I dont mind paying fibrenest temporary but not permanent when other providers offer a better deal and package. Thank you

Fibrenest's FTTP pricing is fairly competitive, eg £14/m for a 20 Mbps service which is fine for emails and basic web browsing or £31/m for a 75 Mbps service. Not that different to the likes of BT, EE, Plusnet etc. Look on the bright side, at least you would be getting full fibre (FTTP), rather than a copper (adsl) or hybrid-copper (FTTC) solution from Openreach, which is not unheard of on new build estates. I'm sure many people would prefer being stuck with a single FTTP provider rather than have a choice of 700 CPs on Openreach copper...

If ‘BT’ built a FTTP network in an area , and basically said , ‘You don’t have a choice, it’s us or no one’ , but the price was in line with other providers elsewhere, I’m sure you wouldn’t be so sanguine to the lack of competition , it’s true that the prices are reasonable and not much different to industry average, but what if the service turns out to be poor, unreliable, or over subscribed, or the customer service is poor , what’s the consumers alternative then ?
As far as non FTTP in new estates from Openreach, it’s been  the case for quite a while that any developments that request OR FTTP can have it,( at no cost ) so if you know of any ‘new’ developments that are getting copper pair infrastructure, that’s hardly OR’s fault is it ?, but I doubt you know of any , effectively the only new developments that are not getting OR FTTP,  with the choice of providers that come with that , are developments that are locking out OR to do a sweetheart deal with someone ( probably linked to the developers ) or small one man band  developers who haven’t approached OR 

1.  Fibrenest's situation isn't that much different to when BT retail first launched FTTP on the Openreach network. BT were pretty much the only ISP available on the Openreach FTTP network for a few years and it was a common complaint from new build homeowners that they didn't have a choice of ISPs, other than BT. However other ISPs chose not to offer their services over the Openreach FTTP network at the time. Exactly the same as Persimmon/Fibrenest:

"Equally, we have already and continue to encourage other providers to use our existing fibre infrastructure for their services.”

ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/06/persimmon-homes-criticised-over-fttp-broadband-monopoly-claims.html

2. Its only in the last few years, that Openreach has offered FTTP 'free' (ie at no additional cost versus copper) to most new build sites. Prior to that, developers were asked to pay a hefty premium for Openreach FTTP and as a result, most were just ordering copper from Openreach. It seems to be for this exact reason that Persimmon decided to create their own FTTP network:

"It was because of the significant number of complaints from customers who were not connected that we created FibreNest in the first place."

So maybe if Openreach had offered FTTP cheaper/free to developers earlier, then perhaps the likes of Fibrenest wouldn't exist at all. 

But I would be very surprised if more CPs didn't start using Persimmon's FTTP network in the future, once their FTTP network has a big enough footprint. Pretty much the same as Openreach FTTP.

Chino

KitKat_Shuffler said:

I'm sure many people would prefer being stuck with a single FTTP provider rather than have a choice of 700 CPs on Openreach copper...

If FTTC is available over that Openreach copper then I think most people would prefer the competition offered by those 700 CPs.

iniltous

KitKat_Shuffler said:

iniltous said:

KitKat_Shuffler said:

Yk2021 said:

 I dont mind paying fibrenest temporary but not permanent when other providers offer a better deal and package. Thank you

Fibrenest's FTTP pricing is fairly competitive, eg £14/m for a 20 Mbps service which is fine for emails and basic web browsing or £31/m for a 75 Mbps service. Not that different to the likes of BT, EE, Plusnet etc. Look on the bright side, at least you would be getting full fibre (FTTP), rather than a copper (adsl) or hybrid-copper (FTTC) solution from Openreach, which is not unheard of on new build estates. I'm sure many people would prefer being stuck with a single FTTP provider rather than have a choice of 700 CPs on Openreach copper...

If ‘BT’ built a FTTP network in an area , and basically said , ‘You don’t have a choice, it’s us or no one’ , but the price was in line with other providers elsewhere, I’m sure you wouldn’t be so sanguine to the lack of competition , it’s true that the prices are reasonable and not much different to industry average, but what if the service turns out to be poor, unreliable, or over subscribed, or the customer service is poor , what’s the consumers alternative then ?
As far as non FTTP in new estates from Openreach, it’s been  the case for quite a while that any developments that request OR FTTP can have it,( at no cost ) so if you know of any ‘new’ developments that are getting copper pair infrastructure, that’s hardly OR’s fault is it ?, but I doubt you know of any , effectively the only new developments that are not getting OR FTTP,  with the choice of providers that come with that , are developments that are locking out OR to do a sweetheart deal with someone ( probably linked to the developers ) or small one man band  developers who haven’t approached OR 

1.  Fibrenest's situation isn't that much different to when BT retail first launched FTTP on the Openreach network. BT were pretty much the only ISP available on the Openreach FTTP network for a few years and it was a common complaint from new build homeowners that they didn't have a choice of ISPs, other than BT. However other ISPs chose not to offer their services over the Openreach FTTP network at the time. Exactly the same as Persimmon/Fibrenest:

"Equally, we have already and continue to encourage other providers to use our existing fibre infrastructure for their services.”

ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/06/persimmon-homes-criticised-over-fttp-broadband-monopoly-claims.html

2. Its only in the last few years, that Openreach has offered FTTP 'free' (ie at no additional cost versus copper) to most new build sites. Prior to that, developers were asked to pay a hefty premium for Openreach FTTP and as a result, most were just ordering copper from Openreach. It seems to be for this exact reason that Persimmon decided to create their own FTTP network:

"It was because of the significant number of complaints from customers who were not connected that we created FibreNest in the first place."

So maybe if Openreach had offered FTTP cheaper/free to developers earlier, then perhaps the likes of Fibrenest wouldn't exist at all. 

But I would be very surprised if more CPs didn't start using Persimmon's FTTP network in the future, once their FTTP network has a big enough footprint. Pretty much the same as Openreach FTTP.

1.Not true though, BT never had any exclusivity on OR FTTP , because a new build had FTTP and BT was available didn’t stop Sky or Talk Talk or whoever also offering service, the fact that they didn’t want to was nothing to do with ‘BT’, even at the start there were alternatives to BT, it’s just they were smaller ‘niche’ providers , generally more expensive than BT as they tend to trade on quality rather than cheapness 
2. You obviously don’t know anything about who pays who what when it comes to new sites , OR pay developers for installation of the physical access infrastructure ( duct boxes etc ) there is no difference between what a developer gets paid for a joint box for copper or fibre….years ago ( when FTTP was less commonplace ) if there was no fibre spine close by , then copper may have been a more economical choice.
Perhaos you can link to something where it was customers clamouring for the builder to lock them into a choice of one ( them ) for FTTP, when OR offer FTTP to every new build site , 
if Persimmon were doing this 5-10 years ago your assertion any carry some weight but they have only been doing this very recently.

You can spin it anyway you like, but a monopoly like these are impossible to defend , your attempts to do so are not based on facts but at best your assumptions  .

Persimmon may offer access to their ducts and boxes , but they may have to be forced to do so, your comment ‘pretty much the same as Openreach is fatuous, OR have no choice but to offer access to anyone who wants it , Persimmon don’t have and ( so far ) dont offer any access to competitors 

littleboo

A the moment, most consumers don't value gigabit broadband but do value provider choice.
Persimmons seemed to have created a nice little monopoly for themselves, exploiting the control they have as the developer to exclude other providers, and the benefit of being able to install the ducts and foot-way boxes for probably not very much.

KitKat_Shuffler

iniltous said:

KitKat_Shuffler said:

iniltous said:

KitKat_Shuffler said:

Yk2021 said:

 I dont mind paying fibrenest temporary but not permanent when other providers offer a better deal and package. Thank you

Fibrenest's FTTP pricing is fairly competitive, eg £14/m for a 20 Mbps service which is fine for emails and basic web browsing or £31/m for a 75 Mbps service. Not that different to the likes of BT, EE, Plusnet etc. Look on the bright side, at least you would be getting full fibre (FTTP), rather than a copper (adsl) or hybrid-copper (FTTC) solution from Openreach, which is not unheard of on new build estates. I'm sure many people would prefer being stuck with a single FTTP provider rather than have a choice of 700 CPs on Openreach copper...

If ‘BT’ built a FTTP network in an area , and basically said , ‘You don’t have a choice, it’s us or no one’ , but the price was in line with other providers elsewhere, I’m sure you wouldn’t be so sanguine to the lack of competition , it’s true that the prices are reasonable and not much different to industry average, but what if the service turns out to be poor, unreliable, or over subscribed, or the customer service is poor , what’s the consumers alternative then ?
As far as non FTTP in new estates from Openreach, it’s been  the case for quite a while that any developments that request OR FTTP can have it,( at no cost ) so if you know of any ‘new’ developments that are getting copper pair infrastructure, that’s hardly OR’s fault is it ?, but I doubt you know of any , effectively the only new developments that are not getting OR FTTP,  with the choice of providers that come with that , are developments that are locking out OR to do a sweetheart deal with someone ( probably linked to the developers ) or small one man band  developers who haven’t approached OR 

1.  Fibrenest's situation isn't that much different to when BT retail first launched FTTP on the Openreach network. BT were pretty much the only ISP available on the Openreach FTTP network for a few years and it was a common complaint from new build homeowners that they didn't have a choice of ISPs, other than BT. However other ISPs chose not to offer their services over the Openreach FTTP network at the time. Exactly the same as Persimmon/Fibrenest:

"Equally, we have already and continue to encourage other providers to use our existing fibre infrastructure for their services.”

ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/06/persimmon-homes-criticised-over-fttp-broadband-monopoly-claims.html

2. Its only in the last few years, that Openreach has offered FTTP 'free' (ie at no additional cost versus copper) to most new build sites. Prior to that, developers were asked to pay a hefty premium for Openreach FTTP and as a result, most were just ordering copper from Openreach. It seems to be for this exact reason that Persimmon decided to create their own FTTP network:

"It was because of the significant number of complaints from customers who were not connected that we created FibreNest in the first place."

So maybe if Openreach had offered FTTP cheaper/free to developers earlier, then perhaps the likes of Fibrenest wouldn't exist at all. 

But I would be very surprised if more CPs didn't start using Persimmon's FTTP network in the future, once their FTTP network has a big enough footprint. Pretty much the same as Openreach FTTP.

1.Not true though, BT never had any exclusivity on OR FTTP , because a new build had FTTP and BT was available didn’t stop Sky or Talk Talk or whoever also offering service, the fact that they didn’t want to was nothing to do with ‘BT’, even at the start there were alternatives to BT, it’s just they were smaller ‘niche’ providers , generally more expensive than BT as they tend to trade on quality rather than cheapness 
2. You obviously don’t know anything about who pays who what when it comes to new sites , OR pay developers for installation of the physical access infrastructure ( duct boxes etc ) there is no difference between what a developer gets paid for a joint box for copper or fibre….years ago ( when FTTP was less commonplace ) if there was no fibre spine close by , then copper may have been a more economical choice.
Perhaos you can link to something where it was customers clamouring for the builder to lock them into a choice of one ( them ) for FTTP, when OR offer FTTP to every new build site , 
if Persimmon were doing this 5-10 years ago your assertion any carry some weight but they have only been doing this very recently.

You can spin it anyway you like, but a monopoly like these are impossible to defend , your attempts to do so are not based on facts but at best your assumptions  .

Persimmon may offer access to their ducts and boxes , but they may have to be forced to do so, your comment ‘pretty much the same as Openreach is fatuous, OR have no choice but to offer access to anyone who wants it , Persimmon don’t have and ( so far ) dont offer any access to competitors 

So are you suggesting Persimmon are telling porkies when they have clearly stated

"Equally, we have already and continue to encourage other providers to use our existing fibre infrastructure for their services.”

ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/06/persimmon-homes-criticised-over-fttp-broadband-monopoly-claims.html

Funnily enough that is what Openreach used to say when some people complained that they had no choice but to use BT Retail for FTTP back when Openreach first began installing FTTP. There's nothing stopping BT Retail, TalkTalk and Sky etc offering FTTP over  Persimmon FTTP fibre, but they've CHOSEN not to. The exclusivity for Persimmon FTTP applies to others providers not being able to physically install their cables on Persimmon sites for X years or indefinitely, not for other providers not being able to access their network. There's a hueg difference between the 2.