Change of access to shared driveway

TELLIT01

Mojisola said:

k1mmie said:

They would be giving up their right of access as they would be creating their own dropped kerb/access

Just because they make another way onto their land doesn't mean that the right of access lapses. 

If they are happy to give it up (and their mortgage company agrees), get it done officially.

That's the point I was trying to make to the OP.  No longer using a route via which they have a right of access doesn't mean there is no longer an entitlement to use it in the future.  The neighbour could sell in the future and the new occupant decide the prefer the original access.  If there is no legally binding proof that the right of access has been given up the OP could have problems.

J_B

k1mmie said:

Is it possible to add photos on here?

Yes - when the 'reply' box opens up there are several icons along the top (starting with B I and $) - the one with the 'mountain' icon is 'insert image'

k1mmie

Entry from the main road towards the house. Neighbour on right after coming through gates! (Left from this angle)

J_B

k1mmie said:

Entry from the main road towards the house. Neighbour on right after coming through gates! (Left from this angle)

So, where is the boundary between you and neighbour?

Jeepers_Creepers

Good photo.

Could you confirm: This driveway is yours? The neighbour has a RoW over it to access their drive shown there on the left?

The $6m question is - as asked by J_B - where would this boundary wall go? I presume - hope - it's along that LH edge of your driveway, where the tarmac meets their paving stones?

If so, I'd bite their hand off - as well as stump up a reasonable amount towards the new boundary wall. PROVIDED they remove the old RoW entitlement from their deeds (and presumably you from yours).

To have this made into your own personal drive without a RoW over it would be a 'very good thing', and almost certainly worth more than the partial outlay for a wall.

k1mmie

J_B said:

k1mmie said:

Entry from the main road towards the house. Neighbour on right after coming through gates! (Left from this angle)

So, where is the boundary between you and neighbour?

Hard to tell on plans but looks like it’s along the fence behind the hedge for about 3/4 of the line. What is confusing on the Title deeds is that it shows the gated area halved and continues straight into their property so not sure if this is considered right of access or equal shared land. On the left nearer the house we have a hedge/fence which is the original border and apparently the old owner of our house agreed for the neighbour to pave their drive slightly over their existing border. This is why I will also be seeing a solicitor. Happy to forego this strip in exchange for the access area (so effectively boundary fence will be right along the joint of the paths to the bottom.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Birds eye photo from a upstairs window plus a copy of the plan would probably be clearer.

TELLIT01

With potential boundary changes as well as changes to RoW you must get solicitors involved in order to avoid issues further down the line.  As others have said, the benefit to the OP of having a clearly defined and private boundary with RoW would certainly be worth the cost of contributing to the changes.

Section62

k1mmie said:

What is confusing on the Title deeds is that it shows the gated area halved and continues straight into their property so not sure if this is considered right of access or equal shared land.

This bit is really important and makes all the difference.  From your initial posts it appeared you owned the driveway and the neighbour just had access rights.

If the true situation is the ownership of the driveway is 50/50 it complicates things as I said in my reply to tliimh.  You need to work out the exact extent of each of your ownerships.

If the neighbour owns 50% of the driveway area then to keep your driveway useable you'd need to get that area of land transferred to you - the neighbour's fence would need to be somewhere well to their side of the centre line.

And if so, the financial arrangements would also mean you are buying part of their land, not just the extinguishment of their access rights.  All the more important to make sure it is done properly and accurately recorded in both sets of deeds.

Jeepers_Creepers

K1, could you post the plan shown on your deeds, along with the terms relating to the RoW/shared use?

Obviously, if the whole tarmac path is shown as 'yours' with the neighb just having a RoW over it to gain access to their paved area, then you are potentially on to a good thing, and you'd hope that the new boundary wall would be along that join. But don't forget that the neighb is effectively doing you a favour, so please be ready to respond in kind, if only financially.

That, however, is the very best case scenario, and is probably not now likely due to what you've subsequently said about this drive.

However, be ready to be flexible - to have your own private, non-shared entrance is a biggie - don't lose sight of that.

Yes, solicitors should be involved, but is there room for you both to discuss this person-to-person without getting entrenched or heated beforehand?

The starting point is an agreement of what the deeds actually show and say - you both need to agree on this.

It's made more complex by your comment "On the left nearer the house we have a hedge/fence which is the original border and apparently the old owner of our house agreed for the neighbour to pave their drive slightly over their existing border." We already have some 'grey' added to the boundary. If you reckon you can 'fairly' say that this 'agreement' of the past owner was a 'favour' to, say, make parking easier, and not intended as a permanent move, then that can be a negotiating point. Ie, if the neighb starts to expect more than you honestly think is fair, then you can always 'tactfully' bring up that piece of land and remind him that "You do know that this was only helpful neighbourly 'permission' to use that piece, don't you - it wasn't ever intended as a permanent arrangement?"

Hopefully, tho', the basics of a fair compromise can be reached. For example, you will obviously need to retain the existing access for yourself, but if the neighb does have some sort of 'part ownership' of this - eg split lengthways down the middle - then you cannot be expected to now get it all, at least not without some payment and/or compromise elsewhere.

Where does that tarmac drive head to? Could it - if necessary - be divided between you across it half way, rather than up it?! Ie, you have the 'bottom' half in order to still provide access to the road, and they have the 'top' half (or part of it) as additional parking for their side, or as a bin store - that sort of stuff. So a new fence/wall would now divide it that way.

If, however, that tarmac drive heads to your garage, then clearly you will need it all! If this neighb truly does have 'half-entitlement' to it, then it would be VERY kind of them to relinquish this to you - it would surely be worth a few £k at least? Possibly the whole cost of that dividing wall? Anyhoo, all for discussion.

Before you talk to your solicitor, download BOTH sets of deeds, print out a few copies, and get some coloured fine-liner pens... Mark out as accurately as possible the original boundaries, and highlight the relevant wording of the deeds.

With a different coloured pen, show the changes that have been made - eg that 'piece of land the previous owner agreed...' - I presume this change is not shown on the deeds? (Don't get too bolshie over this - it's debatable whether you can argue it's still 'yours', but it's a good negotiating point if you suspect the other half is taking the Mick. I mean, as soon as you raise the matter; "You do know that this was never actually gifted in any sense, don't you? It was always an agreement to let you use it, whilst it still belonged to my property...", you will hear a roomful of groans as both solicitors realise this could become messy... They will be very keen to not get involved in that, so you agree with them - "Yeah, I really don't want to go there either, but I'm just making it clear what my true understanding of that agreement was - I mean, the other party is already using part of what is my land, so I think it should at least be taken into account - no?. But, if we can avoid that messiness, then great! Now, where were we...?"