Philips CPAP Field Safety Notice - Told to stop using machine - right to refund?

alcoholfree

born_again said:

Given the condition. Why buy one? When supplied via the appropriate health service? NHS supply them. So surely the Spanish version should be doing the same or your health insurance should be supplying. If the condition has been diagnosed.

Have you consulted your doctor on the matter given the "except in cases where not using a machine may result in immediate death"

What are you doing while you are after a refund? 

Oh, and when I got my machine(s) my private health insurance - despite being very good - does not cover machines for some reason. That said, we changed provider about a year ago so I will check with this one, but the last one (both my wife's work - her company changed supplier) was one of the best in Spain and they didn't cover them for some reason so ... 

unforeseen

From https://www.philips.co.uk/healthcare/resources/landing/experience-catalog/sleep/communications/src-update#section_2

• For patients using BiLevel PAP and CPAP devices: Please contact your physician or care provider before making any changes to your prescribed therapy. While the risks identified in the field safety notice have resulted in Philips recommending discontinued use, it is important that patients consult with their physicians to determine the most appropriate options for continued treatment. Together with their physicians, patients should determine if the benefit of continuing therapy with the device outweighs the risks identified.
• For patients using life-sustaining mechanical ventilator devices: DO  NOT discontinue or alter prescribed therapy, without consulting physicians to determine appropriate next steps.

 

Philips is recommending that customers and patients halt use of ozone-related cleaning products, and adhere to their device Instructions for Use for approved cleaning methods.

 

Additionally, Philips is reminding customers and patients to review the age of their BiLevel PAP and CPAP devices, as they are typically recommended to be replaced after five years of use.

So at best you are looking at 20% refund, having had 4 years use out of it. 

Have you consulted your physician? 

alcoholfree

unforeseen said:

From https://www.philips.co.uk/healthcare/resources/landing/experience-catalog/sleep/communications/src-update#section_2

• For patients using BiLevel PAP and CPAP devices: Please contact your physician or care provider before making any changes to your prescribed therapy. While the risks identified in the field safety notice have resulted in Philips recommending discontinued use, it is important that patients consult with their physicians to determine the most appropriate options for continued treatment. Together with their physicians, patients should determine if the benefit of continuing therapy with the device outweighs the risks identified.
• For patients using life-sustaining mechanical ventilator devices: DO  NOT discontinue or alter prescribed therapy, without consulting physicians to determine appropriate next steps.

 

Philips is recommending that customers and patients halt use of ozone-related cleaning products, and adhere to their device Instructions for Use for approved cleaning methods.

 

Additionally, Philips is reminding customers and patients to review the age of their BiLevel PAP and CPAP devices, as they are typically recommended to be replaced after five years of use.

So at best you are looking at 20% refund, having had 4 years use out of it. 

Have you consulted your physician? 

I ordered it 28th December 2018, so received it sometime in January 2019. Nowhere near 4 years use. Try 2.5 years. And that's 2.5 years of off-gassing and possibly the foam breaking down (remember I AM in a very hot country and that is one of the ways it breaks down). 

No, I've not consulted my doctor. I know my level of apnea and I know I am not at immediate threat of death from stopping using it (but I will suffer long term damage). I've explained this above.

What I also know is I've just had a CT scan on my lungs (already prescribed before I found out about this issue) and I put the immediate health of my lungs first at the moment. I'm not going to continuing breathing in a machine that is off-gassing while waiting to find out if I have lung cancer or some other serious lung issue.

The fact is they do recommend people discontinue using their machines. Do you now agree that? You have read the bit that says "While the risks identified in the field safety notice have resulted in Philips recommending discontinued use..." ? 

JJ_Egan

Consumer Rights does not entitle you to a full refund .CR says repair replace or refund  their choice .

What have Phillips said when you approached them  for a refund ??

(Now, all that said, does anyone actually have anything useful to say)

You mean that agrees with you ??

Personal opinion >> you require proper legal advice , not advice from random unqualified users of the forum .

alcoholfree

JJ_Egan said:

Consumer Rights does not entitle you to a full refund .CR says repair replace or refund  their choice .

What have Phillips said when you approached them  for a refund ??

(Now, all that said, does anyone actually have anything useful to say)

You mean that agrees with you ??

Personal opinion >> you require proper legal advice , not advice from random unqualified users of the forum .

The first post was not useful at ALL. It was simply wrong about what Philips have said and the causes of the problem. That's why I asked for anything useful. 

Philips are offering to repair them BUT admit it will take a year or more to complete.

This is a medical device. It is a machine that prevents brain, heart, lung, and other organ damage (for me) and keeps some other people alive throughout the night. That is simply outrageous.

Philips themselves should be replacing them with other models that don't have this problem (they have some), or refunding themselves so people can buy other machines. But at the moment they are sticking to the "wait up to a year without treatment" line.

That's why I said their reputation in CPAP is dead. It will not recover from this. Let's hope not too many people out of the 4 million plus users of their machines out there don't die from it.

walesdave

Afraid I've binned it, but I had a letter from the NHS this week saying to keep on using the machine until it gets replaced.

On Phips website:
"Patients, Users, or Caregivers​

Philips has established a registration process that allows Patients, Users, or Caregivers​ to look up their device serial number and begin a claim if their unit is affected.At this time, this process is only available for Patients, Users, or Caregivers in the USA, Canada, U.K., and European Union. More countries will be added shortly.

Begin registration process: https://philipssrcupdate.expertinquiry.com/

0800 249 4578 (UK) (0044) 20 8089 3822 (Outside of UK)"

If I was you I'd give them a call or do the online registration process.

alcoholfree

walesdave said:

Afraid I've binned it, but I had a letter from the NHS this week saying to keep on using the machine until it gets replaced.

On Phips website:
"Patients, Users, or Caregivers​

Philips has established a registration process that allows Patients, Users, or Caregivers​ to look up their device serial number and begin a claim if their unit is affected.

At this time, this process is only available for Patients, Users, or Caregivers in the USA, Canada, U.K., and European Union. More countries will be added shortly.

Begin registration process: https://philipssrcupdate.expertinquiry.com/

0800 249 4578 (UK) (0044) 20 8089 3822 (Outside of UK)"

If I was you I'd give them a call or do the online registration process.

Thanks, I did that the day I was told about it by the company I bought it from (that was last week, only 2.5 months or so after it was announced...) Registered and called them twice.

But they are still saying it could take a year.

I don't know if your letter was generic to all users or specific to you (is your condition very bad?) but as I've had lung issues since using this machine, which have cleared up when stopped (could be a co-incidence, I was also on very strong treatment too, but the treatment that should have worked failed) - and I didn't have any problems with previous machines - AND I'm waiting on the results of a CT scan, I'd rather go without for the time being than take any further risk with my lungs. Philips saying to stop is enough alone, but with my lung conditions too, not worth the risk. 

Thanks, and hope you are ok.

alcoholfree

walesdave said:

Afraid I've binned it, but I had a letter from the NHS this week saying to keep on using the machine until it gets replaced.

On Phips website:
"Patients, Users, or Caregivers​

Philips has established a registration process that allows Patients, Users, or Caregivers​ to look up their device serial number and begin a claim if their unit is affected.

At this time, this process is only available for Patients, Users, or Caregivers in the USA, Canada, U.K., and European Union. More countries will be added shortly.

Begin registration process: https://philipssrcupdate.expertinquiry.com/

0800 249 4578 (UK) (0044) 20 8089 3822 (Outside of UK)"

If I was you I'd give them a call or do the online registration process.

Just read the NHS guidance and one of their reasonings is because the foam degradation is caused by either the cleaning with wrong products or high temperatures and humidity and says that neither of those last two apply to the UK. I'm in Spain where they do.

sheramber

If I was worried about my health I would be buying another machine rather than waiting for Phillips to act.

If you consider their reputation for these machines dead then presumably you don't want a replacement or a repaired machine anyway.

p3ncilsharpener

alcoholfree said:

p3ncilsharpener said:

Either way, you're not going to get to keep the machine and get a refund.  It's one or the other.

Well, some people in Australia have had refunds from retailers and not had to return the machine. Apparently they have similar consumer laws. The machine is useless, it can't be used. But it could be used to prove health damage (including cancer) in a future law case if needed, so not many people are going to want to just give them back.

Either way, Philips' reputation in CPAP is damaged for good.

What people in Australia got is not relevant, unless you bought it in Australia.

You've specially asked about the Consumer Rights Act and the Consumer Rights act does not entitle you to keep the product and get a refund.  If they insist you send it back (and they probably will) you'll have to decide between keeping it so you can make your legal claim or sending it back so you can get a refund.