Does red light camera has a delay?

NBLondon

Ermia said:

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I've been driving in another country for over a decade, and the system is somewhat different (e.g. almost all red lights have digital countdown timers, so I used to have plenty of thinking time). 

Over a decade?  Then you should have enough driving experience to start adjusting to a different type of traffic signal and certainly should have developed the art of mirror checking.

If your previous experience is so different to London (mostly rural?) then maybe a refresher will help you adjust.

zagfles

Car_54 said:

Steve182 said:

Car_54 said:

Ermia said:

I was driving overnight a few days ago and when I was approaching a junction, the light become amber. I thought I'm gonna make it and tried to accelerate, but my car isn't very agile, so the light became red exactly when I was on the line.

Are there any delays between the time the light gets red and when the camera gets activated? Even a second of delay would  mean I'm safe. 

Don't be so sure. The offence is committed if any part of the car crosses the line on red (or amber). You may have been exactly on the line, but there were still several feet of car following behind you.

I don't see how that works. The RAC say the same thing but don't distinguish between vehicle types. https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/cameras/traffic-light-cameras/

An articulated lorry travelling at 30mph will take about 1.5 seconds to pass a light from start to finish, 2.25 secs if travelling at only 20mph.

There would be no HGV drivers left on the road if that rule was enforced!

Neither the RAC website or I distinguish between vehicle types, for the simple reason that the law doesn't.

I used to get the bus into work every day, and usually sat at the back. There was a junction where the bus had to do a right turn at traffic lights and there was no filter, oncoming traffic was always heavy so it was nearly always a case of the bus being in the middle of the junction indicating right waiting for the oncoming traffic to be stopped by a red light. That meant a red light for the bus too. But invariably the back of the bus hadn't crossed the line, I could see it if I was sat at the back. Often as much as 5 seconds after the light went red, the back of the bus went through it.

Wonder how many tickets the bus drivers got? What were the drivers supposed to do, sit in the middle of the junction when the lights went red and clog up the junction?

[Deleted User]

ontheroad1970 said:

Deleted_User said:

ontheroad1970 said:

Username03725 said:

I'd send your licence back and swap it for a provisional if I were you then take another course of lessons, then if you do squeak through another test immediately sign up for a Pass Plus or similar extended and additional driving course that teaches more than just the absolute basics that get you through the test.

The excuses for not using mirrors (too difficult!!!) and trying to race an amber light when you had enough time to assimilate the road conditions as potentially too wet to stop, suggests that you aren't actually up to the required standard.

And honestly, the word is brake. A car has brakes, when you hit the brakes you are braking, as you know full well from reading the Highway Code section on Braking Distances. When a car breaks, it needs fixing. If you're breaking, see a medical professional.

Someone needs to take a chill pill, I think.  Piling on, combined with pedantry.  You clearly understood what the OP meant, so your understanding has not been disadvantaged one iota.  

We all bow down at your feet for your perfect driving standards.  As that is what they are, are they not?  Otherwise you wouldn't be preaching quite so loudly.

OP:  Do try and get more training to be more confident and proficient.  Ask a friend or relative to give you a view on your driving, and on your ability to anticipate.  There are online resources around also if you search for them.  You will get better the more you learn.  Take it steady, and keep glancing at your mirrors - all of them little and often.

Pedantry or not, OP could kill someone or themselves due to their bad driving, would you be so keen to defend them if they sped up to go through on amber due to poor driving and they slammed into someone you know?

You can either encourage the OP to learn something or you can choose to join in the gang of people with pitchforks and torches.  The OP has their licence and your ranting won't do anything to stop that.  In fact, everybody piling in with rants could have the opposite effect.  So why not encourage the OP to learn from their errors rather than simply join in th pitchfork waving?  

Pointing out the consequences of their actions is encouraging them to learn. There is no rant here, put down your pitchfork and  torch and stop attacking people who point out the OP's driving issues.

zagfles

ontheroad1970 said:

AdrianC said:

Username03725 said:

Luckily I don't tend to use the Brent area too often so my chances of encountering someone who drives by numbers and doesn't have time check the mirrors is unlikely to happen. Good luck.

I wish the mindset you describe so well was rare.

The inability to use mirrors is not just amongst young or newly qualified drivers.  It's rife amongst all types of drivers.  

But in discussions like this I guess honey catches more flies than vinegar.  

Indeed, like those who think the purpose of the wing mirrors is to check the side of their car is still there.

[Deleted User]

Really interesting thread to read and nice to see the majority of comments being constructive and helpful and the OP engaging - its a great topic to discuss openly, nobody is a perfect driver especially the "Ok, I'll bite" commenter who I'd actually worry about more for being so confident of their skills and relies on the "luck" of not encountering drivers with different skills sets.

I found judging the amber light a challenge when I first started driving especially on faster roads say 40-60mph - my mistake was usually to think too long and make the decision late and end up braking sharply and often stopping over the white line. This was the days before ABS brakes in a 1984 Fiesta with 135/13 tyres that would almost certainly skid to halt if the roads were merely damp.  

We are all spoilt nowadays with much more capable cars that are more forgiving of driver errors and often over-rate ourselves as drivers - I realised this when trying to teach my son to drive this year.

One thing I still do from time to time in stressful driving situations is something I picked up from the excellent Roadcraft book, talking through your observations, thoughts and decisions out loud whilst driving. It keeps you focused and attentive and helps the decision making - as you gain experience you will get better at anticipating an amber light and have prepared your decision point before the event itself. It might go something like this as you say it out loud:

• Lights have been on green for a while - they might change so I'll prepare....
• Check speed, road conditions, mirrors
• Decide where your last point to safely stop is before getting there - eg might be further away if roads a wet or vehicles close behind - call out the reasons
• If the lights do go amber then most of the factors have already been considered and you can decide more quickly.

OP - best wishes for your future of driving, it will get easier and better with time, think of it as a life skill to constantly work on and improve and take pride in your driving ability.

zagfles

Deleted_User said:

Approaching a light that has been green a while, if you know the area, you should never get caught out with a "sudden" change. In an unknown area, I ease off (as in lift foot off) if it's been on a while and I can see cars waiting at another junction especially as that is a huge clue lights may change ahead. Losing a minute of journey time and safely slowing is much better than burning it to the lights or a sudden slam on

Except that the phasing of lights can change at different times of the day/week, or can be changed permanently. Just because you're used to a particular phasing doesn't mean that'll apply next time you use the junction.

zagfles

Ermia said:

Username03725 said:

And honestly, the word is brake. A car has brakes, when you hit the brakes you are braking, as you know full well from reading the Highway Code section on Braking Distances. When a car breaks, it needs fixing. If you're breaking, see a medical professional.

I appreciate that you value road safety, and thanks for the spell checking. I get your points. Nonetheless, I don't find your approach constructive for anything that involves human beings. If you were my driving instructor, I would have quit driving. And if you were my teacher, I would have preferred to be illiterate rather than being ashamed and humiliated.

lisyloo said:

I would recommend having a look for a local ROSPA or IAM group.
If money is a concern then ROSPA are a good choice.
They pair you up with a volunteer and you contribute towards their petrol.
ROSPA are better cost wise if that's a concern because you pay less up front and don't need to take a test to get the benefit of the sessions.
But either would be a worthwhile investment if they save a single accident.
You can also get a discount on your insurance once you pass a test (and that is a very good indicator of less accidents as insurance companies don't give discounts for no reason).
They are charities and they don't put a limit on how many sessions you have.

 

Great, I'll take a look at RoSPA. I hope it's cheaper than having driving instructors so that I can practice longer for less cost.

I've been driving in another country for over a decade, and the system is somewhat different (e.g. almost all red lights have digital countdown timers, so I used to have plenty of thinking time). That's why perhaps some experienced and friendly guy from RoSPA who advises me for an extended period would be more helpful than spending some expensive hours with an instructor.

It would be superb if I could get some insurance discount for this, too.

Those countdown timers are such a good idea, they also have them for pedestrian crossings in some places. I can see it'd get some taking used to if you're used to them.

I think the bottom line is not to worry too much about going through amber lights, just make certain you don't through red. You're unlikely to get a ticket or cause an accident going through an amber, you're more likely to cause one if you brake sharply.

Username03725

Deleted_User said:

...nobody is a perfect driver especially the "Ok, I'll bite" commenter who I'd actually worry about more for being so confident of their skills and relies on the "luck" of not encountering drivers with different skills sets.

Oh my word. Are you serious? If so, how do you square that with what I actually said...?

I'm not perfect, but was taught the importance of thinking about my driving and improving by being aware. Maybe I'm awful, maybe I'm ok but I don't hog middle lanes, am careful to indicate correctly, use roundabouts correctly, am courteous to other road users etc etc.

The difference is that from my early lessons, passing the test, first solo drives all the way up to the present day and onwards I've been aware that no-one - including me - is perfect, and that learning to drive is an on-gong process that never ends as the roads change and traffic changes from how it was even 5 years ago, let alone 40. I recognise that, and try to keep up with modern teaching techniques (chatting to my sons' instructors was v useful to see what the modern thinking is for various techniques). I don't know how many people on here regularly buy the latest HC. I do. It's about awareness and self-awareness. I'm not perfect, the difference is I recognise that shortcomings can be improved on, and I make an effort to do that. I don't need to come on here bleating about how to approach an amber light, hoping that I wasn't flashed by the camera. 

zagfles

Username03725 said:

Deleted_User said:

...nobody is a perfect driver especially the "Ok, I'll bite" commenter who I'd actually worry about more for being so confident of their skills and relies on the "luck" of not encountering drivers with different skills sets.

Oh my word. Are you serious? If so, how do you square that with what I actually said...?

I'm not perfect, but was taught the importance of thinking about my driving and improving by being aware. Maybe I'm awful, maybe I'm ok but I don't hog middle lanes, am careful to indicate correctly, use roundabouts correctly, am courteous to other road users etc etc.

The difference is that from my early lessons, passing the test, first solo drives all the way up to the present day and onwards I've been aware that no-one - including me - is perfect, and that learning to drive is an on-gong process that never ends as the roads change and traffic changes from how it was even 5 years ago, let alone 40. I recognise that, and try to keep up with modern teaching techniques (chatting to my sons' instructors was v useful to see what the modern thinking is for various techniques). I don't know how many people on here regularly buy the latest HC. I do. It's about awareness and self-awareness. I'm not perfect, the difference is I recognise that shortcomings can be improved on, and I make an effort to do that. I don't need to come on here bleating about how to approach an amber light, hoping that I wasn't flashed by the camera. 

If you're exhibiting "modern teaching techniques" no wonder so many kids these days have mental health issues !!

Ermia

Deleted_User said:

One thing I still do from time to time in stressful driving situations is something I picked up from the excellent Roadcraft book, talking through your observations, thoughts and decisions out loud whilst driving. It keeps you focused and attentive and helps the decision making - as you gain experience you will get better at anticipating an amber light and have prepared your decision point before the event itself. It might go something like this as you say it out loud:

Good point. I actually watched a lot of such videos before my driving test last year and it helped me find my bad habits and pass the test.to pass. Here is a very extreme one (ambulance driving) that is joyful to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRmiaQqWt7Y

zagfles said:

Those countdown timers are such a good idea, they also have them for pedestrian crossings in some places. I can see it'd get some taking used to if you're used to them.

I think the bottom line is not to worry too much about going through amber lights, just make certain you don't through red. You're unlikely to get a ticket or cause an accident going through an amber, you're more likely to cause one if you brake sharply.

Actually, I am very cautious and used to brake all the time at the amber light, unless it's clear I won't stop on the line. But very recently, a friend of mine saw my driving and advised me to try to pass amber lights whenever possible, because most drivers do so and if I stop, the other drivers behind my car might not expect it and they might brake too late and cause a crash. Then I became too subconscious and started to overthink finding the new threshold. 

The pieces of advice I got here certainly help to overcome this issue. But also it's a matter of time until this becomes a habit.

(I used correct spelling for brake, yaay)

Username03725 said:

 I don't know how many people on here regularly buy the latest HC. I do. It's about awareness and self-awareness. I'm not perfect, the difference is I recognise that shortcomings can be improved on, and I make an effort to do that. I don't need to come on here bleating about how to approach an amber light, hoping that I wasn't flashed by the camera. 

Having high standards and expecting others to comply with rules and safety, is a plus. I admire that. But verbally abusing others who haven't reached your expected standards (or have some issues), is not OK.
"I don't need to come on here bleating about...", then don't. Gone are the days when guillotine was a tool for "correcting people".