Right to buy denied

[Deleted User]

tara1970 said:

 Hi

I am a council tenant since 2013. All docs showing that landlord is city council. I always pay my full rent to housing department but when I applied for right to buy, they denied on the ground that property is not owned by housing but owned by Education. Need advice. Thanks

Where is the property? RTB no longer exists in Scotland or Wales but is still full steam ahead in England. 

If in England what type of tenancy do you have? 

Section62

tara1970 said:

I am a council tenant since 2013. All docs showing that landlord is city council. I always pay my full rent to housing department but when I applied for right to buy, they denied on the ground that property is not owned by housing but owned by Education. Need advice. Thanks

At a guess, this could be a property originally built (or converted) to provide accommodation for an employee, for example a live-in caretaker or groundsperson.

It was quite common - especially in areas where housing was expensive or scarce - for councils to include use of a flat/house as part of the employment of someone who would be present on or near the site outside normal hours.  Similar accommodation was often provided with other kinds of council owned facilities like cemeteries and sewage treatment works.

If the accommodation is no longer needed then it could be let to non-employees, but because it doesn't form part of the social housing stock the arrangement would probably be on a commercial basis, rather than as social housing. Similar arrangements might apply to other council-owned property such as flats as part of shops, or any housing on a County Farm.

The collection of rent by the housing department doesn't determine ownership - it might just be that council finds it convenient to have one department collecting all housing-related rents, rather then having to set up and manage different systems for each department. Internal arrangements like this (often known as SLA's) are common, and have no significance.

However, if your tenancy is commercial rather than social then this should have been explained to you at the time.

tara1970

Section62 said:

tara1970 said:

I am a council tenant since 2013. All docs showing that landlord is city council. I always pay my full rent to housing department but when I applied for right to buy, they denied on the ground that property is not owned by housing but owned by Education. Need advice. Thanks

At a guess, this could be a property originally built (or converted) to provide accommodation for an employee, for example a live-in caretaker or groundsperson.

It was quite common - especially in areas where housing was expensive or scarce - for councils to include use of a flat/house as part of the employment of someone who would be present on or near the site outside normal hours.  Similar accommodation was often provided with other kinds of council owned facilities like cemeteries and sewage treatment works.

If the accommodation is no longer needed then it could be let to non-employees, but because it doesn't form part of the social housing stock the arrangement would probably be on a commercial basis, rather than as social housing. Similar arrangements might apply to other council-owned property such as flats as part of shops, or any housing on a County Farm.

The collection of rent by the housing department doesn't determine ownership - it might just be that council finds it convenient to have one department collecting all housing-related rents, rather then having to set up and manage different systems for each department. Internal arrangements like this (often known as SLA's) are common, and have no significance.

However, if your tenancy is commercial rather than social then this should have been explained to you at the time.

 I have checked in title deed the name of registered owner is city council and Head of Regeneration and Property Law, Legal Services Office.
All my correspondence in last 8 years has been with housing department. No where it is mentioned about education.
The terraced property is on the street and almost all the properties are owned by private landlords. In the rear of all these properties there is a council building which used to be a primary school until 2018 and separated by secure metal fence. In Land registry plan, the house is clearly not the part of council building.
Although nothing is mentioned in tenancy agreement about social or commercial.
The RTB guideline from Government website only mention about council property not about any department like housing or education.
The council's refusal letter and RTB2 have not provided any information about appeal in this type of refusal.
I will definitely appeal and challenge but at the moment dont know where to start.
want to explore what options do I have. 

deannagone

If you can get a mortgage would it not be less time consuming ( you have no certainty you will ever succeed getting RTB status) to concentrate on buying a house somewhere else?  It doesn't sound like you will have much success with your present course of action. 

If the house is built onto the back of an old school, its sounds like that's why its owned by Education, rather than Housing part of the council.  There is a certain logic to it.  Housing was often provided as part of the job when a teacher in the 'olden' days. I'm not sure how you could disprove the council's affirmation that the house is not owned by housing. Its sounds a little more like you don't want to accept this rather than there is no reason to believe what they are saying.

Robin9

You could approach your local councillor and ask them to investigate.

[Deleted User]

tara1970 said:

Section62 said:

tara1970 said:

I am a council tenant since 2013. All docs showing that landlord is city council. I always pay my full rent to housing department but when I applied for right to buy, they denied on the ground that property is not owned by housing but owned by Education. Need advice. Thanks

At a guess, this could be a property originally built (or converted) to provide accommodation for an employee, for example a live-in caretaker or groundsperson.

It was quite common - especially in areas where housing was expensive or scarce - for councils to include use of a flat/house as part of the employment of someone who would be present on or near the site outside normal hours.  Similar accommodation was often provided with other kinds of council owned facilities like cemeteries and sewage treatment works.

If the accommodation is no longer needed then it could be let to non-employees, but because it doesn't form part of the social housing stock the arrangement would probably be on a commercial basis, rather than as social housing. Similar arrangements might apply to other council-owned property such as flats as part of shops, or any housing on a County Farm.

The collection of rent by the housing department doesn't determine ownership - it might just be that council finds it convenient to have one department collecting all housing-related rents, rather then having to set up and manage different systems for each department. Internal arrangements like this (often known as SLA's) are common, and have no significance.

However, if your tenancy is commercial rather than social then this should have been explained to you at the time.

 I have checked in title deed the name of registered owner is city council and Head of Regeneration and Property Law, Legal Services Office.
All my correspondence in last 8 years has been with housing department. No where it is mentioned about education.
The terraced property is on the street and almost all the properties are owned by private landlords. In the rear of all these properties there is a council building which used to be a primary school until 2018 and separated by secure metal fence. In Land registry plan, the house is clearly not the part of council building.
Although nothing is mentioned in tenancy agreement about social or commercial.
The RTB guideline from Government website only mention about council property not about any department like housing or education.
The council's refusal letter and RTB2 have not provided any information about appeal in this type of refusal.
I will definitely appeal and challenge but at the moment dont know where to start.
want to explore what options do I have. 

What type of tenancy do you have? For example, do you have an Assured Shorthold Tenancy? 

HampshireH

Robin9 said:

You could approach your local councillor and ask them to investigate.

Why would you do that before going through the council and then their complaints process.

As it stands OP has been told their property along side many others, isn't eligible.

They can ask further questions and should get s more detailed response from them if they ask 

Section62

tara1970 said:

I have checked in title deed the name of registered owner is city council and Head of Regeneration and Property Law, Legal Services Office.

This isn't particularly significant. The job title will be someone in the council's legal department with responsibility for legal issues relating to land and property owned or used by the council - regardless of which department is regarded as the owner.

All my correspondence in last 8 years has been with housing department. No where it is mentioned about education.

Again, not particularly significant if the council has decided to manage all domestic property lettings through the one department.

The terraced property is on the street and almost all the properties are owned by private landlords.

Unless RTB has been especially popular in your street this would tend to suggest the houses were not built as social housing, but instead the council has built or acquired the one you are living in for a particular purpose.

In the rear of all these properties there is a council building which used to be a primary school until 2018 and separated by secure metal fence. In Land registry plan, the house is clearly not the part of council building.

Having a separate LR title doesn't necessarily mean it isn't/wasn't part of the school. Nor exclude the possibility it was acquired to house an employee 'nearby'. (See below about the guidance)

Although nothing is mentioned in tenancy agreement about social or commercial.

The type of tenancy is going to be relevant, as per Lover_of_Lycra's comment.

The RTB guideline from Government website only mention about council property not about any department like housing or education.

See page 23, 24, and 25 of this guidance document for examples of exemptions -  https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/975368/Your_Right_to_Buy_Your_Home_A_Guide_-_2021.pdf

Exemptions C or D could apply to a property used by 'education' employees. Therefore, assuming you aren't an employee of the council then exemption G is possibly the applicable one.

As you know your own circumstances better than us, you might be able to see another exemption which is more applicable.

The council's refusal letter and RTB2 have not provided any information about appeal in this type of refusal.
I will definitely appeal and challenge but at the moment dont know where to start.
want to explore what options do I have. 

The first step is to get clarification on the type of tenancy you have, and the detailed reason for refusal.

tara1970

I have sent an email to home ownership team for detailed reason for refusal. I started an introductory tenancy on may 2013 which became secure tenancy in 2014. 

mcpitman

But they don't have to sell it to you do they?

It appears you think there is a legal right to buy the property whether the council want/have to sell it or not.

Genuine query here - is someone "entitled" to buy the property after renting for a period of time?