Ineos Grenadier - is it a rehashed LR Defender?

ripofflondon

Hi all

Just saw this while looking for something else 
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/post/discussion/www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/inside-the-ineos-grenadier-a-practical-and-fashionable-4x4-workhorse-without-trying-too-hard/ar-AALRZSK?ocid=entnewsntp
and (but pretty similar to the first) https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/post/discussion/www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/ineos-grenadier-s-interior-revealed-and-it-can-be-hosed-clean/ar-AALR1ET?ocid=entnewsntp

It looks incredibly like a re-released Defender with a jazzed-up engine and interior, doesn't it ?  

scrappy_returns

Yes it is, thats the target market.

ripofflondon

Hmm.  So do you reckon they bought up the tooling from LR, or what? 

After JLR got bought by Tata, I always thought the Defender, with such a high % of old-fashioned hand finishing, would really lend itself to being built somewhere like India eg the old Hindustan Ambassador factory in Calcutta.  

One wonders how they got around the emissions and crash regs that were behind the stopping of production in the first place.

AdrianC

ripofflondon said:

Hmm.  So do you reckon they bought up the tooling from LR, or what?

They didn't.

It's been engineered from scratch by Steyr in Austria, using BMW mechanicals. If it ever hits production, it'll be assembled in France.

Ratcliffe announced plans back in 2017, with the reveal for the styling last summer.
JLR promptly sued them for breach of trademark over the look of the Defender, and lost.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-04/jaguar-land-rover-loses-court-battle-over-defender-trademark

One wonders how they got around the emissions and crash regs that were behind the stopping of production in the first place.

That's not what put the Defender out of production. It's a red herring.

Remember, it'd been re-engined multiple times over the last few years to keep up with emission regs.
2.5 -> TD5 -> 2.4 Puma -> 2.2 Puma

Only one combination of two things put it out of production...
It cost more to build than it sold for, and nobody was buying them...
2010 - 4,100 sold across Europe, inc UK. Between then and 2016's end of production, they didn't hit 1.500/year.
https://carsalesbase.com/europe-land-rover-defender/

ripofflondon

Thanks a lot, Adrian - v interesting.  
Did you see too the "replica" Defender in camel trophy style? Unfortunately the replica is not affordable... 

So let us hope to see the grenadier on the road soon!

Also pretty capable seems to be the indian G-Class styled Gurkha. But this will probably never reach the EU / UK. But maybe we can buy them in India and start travelling with indian numberplates and registration?

AdrianC

ripofflondon said:

So let us hope to see the grenadier on the road soon!

In the unlikely event it ever does, then if you think it'll be any cheaper than a farm-spec Land Cruiser or Navara or Ranger, I admire your optimism...

caprikid1

Sadly the defender like the classic Mini both great vehicles that were never developed or built properly in their later years.

Having owned /own a later defender / Mini rest assured the build quality and rust proofing was appalling. They stopped production as even those with rose tinted glasses had them start to fog up.

Two great products destroyed by their current owners.

AdrianC

caprikid1 said:

Sadly the defender like the classic Mini both great vehicles that were never developed or built properly in their later years.

Having owned /own a later defender / Mini rest assured the build quality and rust proofing was appalling. They stopped production as even those with rose tinted glasses had them start to fog up.

Two great products destroyed by their current owners.

No, they were always appallingly built.

It's just that the rest of the motor industry moved on, mostly by improving the design to remove all the rust traps etc.

Car_54

ripofflondon said:

Thanks a lot, Adrian - v interesting.  
Did you see too the "replica" Defender in camel trophy style? Unfortunately the replica is not affordable... 

So let us hope to see the grenadier on the road soon!

Also pretty capable seems to be the indian G-Class styled Gurkha. But this will probably never seen the european union. But maybe we can buy them in India and start travelling with indian numberplates and registration?

What's the relevance of the EU?

ripofflondon

Car_54 said:

What's the relevance of the EU?

Duly corrected!  Now reads 'the EU / UK'

Goudy

The Grenadier is due to go on sale in early 2022.

The car is named after Ineos owners favourite pub.

They did plan to build them in Wales and Portugal, but have recently bought the Smart factory in Hambach from Daimler, so looks like the Wales plan has been dropped.

Seems they are getting their power from BMW at the moment, but they have joined up with Hyundai to produce hydrogen powered cars and hydrogen supply chains which seems apt as Ineos produce tons of the stuff every year.

Ineos have had Magna Steyr as their engineering partner, who themselves are no stranger to all wheel drive systems, so it's off road credentials should be pretty good.

It's expected the price will start from around 40k which is putting it in the path of the new Defender.

Can't help think they've missed a trick, perhaps they should have made a stripped out work vehicle to filled the gap left by the old Defender and priced it accordingly.