Bank Transfer Scam

soulsaver

jimjames said:

soulsaver said:

Even worse, a 3rd party pays by bank transfer without communicating with you first? You think that's an 'everyday' occurrence?

I think that you're again being somewhat unfair. If the partner of the person making the transaction made the payment I wouldn't expect to have contact with them. It might not happen every day but it's also something that isn't beyond the realms of possibility. I'm sure the person who paid their money for a non existent rental property is thinking the same. Two people scammed at the same time is a clever MO. It's very easy to be critical in hindsight, I know I've come close to being scammed in the past and it's only after the event you think "what just happened?"

You left out that OP only found out it was supposedly the scammers partner after the transfer arrived. They didn't get his agreement to do this or even tell him beforehand.

If I KNEW it was their partner (you don't, just that is what he said) I'd tell them I'll keep the items for a few days while s/he helps sort his bank transfer out/phones the bank to arrange the transfer/packages the cash by special delivery/ posts a cheque.. the latter two with a covering note saying what the payment is for and where to ship to when it clears.

Then you have a contract with the payer.. and something to show othe bank if they ask where the money came from.

If they can't accommodate any of the readily available alternative payment practices I've kindly offered, I decline their business... and tell them I'll sell to someone who can pay without complicated (coq & bull) stories.

ETA spacing









. 

jimjames

Teapot55 said:

When the woman paid the deposit into @Jewelscollectingdust ‘s bank account her bank will surely have flagged up that the name on the account wasn’t that of the person she thought she was paying? Why would she ignore that warning? 

That doesn't actually work with many bank accounts and not with businesses. I've recently paid people and one didn't do a check at all, the other check failed but it was genuine. With such a hit & miss success rate it's not surprising that they can get round it.

born_again

Batesy1976 said:

Edit:  And that's nothing to say of people claiming they were scammed to get their money back and the item, with the banks unwilling and largely unable to verify the truth of the claims.

The issue is the banks are not the police. They can not send someone round to knock on a door & question anyone. Police do not seem interested in it, as it's too much work.
Action Fraud take the details, pass it on to local police who will look at it and say. No way we are going to get anywhere with that. So it gets closed.

 @Jewelscollectingdust

Hang in there. If you have done nothing wrong, then all will be well again. Just takes as long as it takes.
But advice such as have backup accounts is good. I take it that you have a full business account, and maybe paying charges on this. So I would look at moving personal banking elsewhere.

In your case there is little you could have done to prevent it. Just the same as nothing that could be done via the banking system. There is only so much anyone can do when the fraudsters go to such lengths as this. The fact is they have played a long game on this, means they are getting more confident that people have not caught on to them. Rather than a quick in/out, which we are used too.

Abbafan1972

Just on another note - hubby has been getting these random text messages saying he has a voicemail with a link. Of course we don't click on it, as we don't know what's contained in it!  We just delete it straight away. If it was a genuine voicemail you would have a notification in your phone app. 

Brie

jimjames said:

Teapot55 said:

When the woman paid the deposit into @Jewelscollectingdust ‘s bank account her bank will surely have flagged up that the name on the account wasn’t that of the person she thought she was paying? Why would she ignore that warning? 

That doesn't actually work with many bank accounts and not with businesses. I've recently paid people and one didn't do a check at all, the other check failed but it was genuine. With such a hit & miss success rate it's not surprising that they can get round it.

One way around this being an issue is by making the bank transfer by phoning the bank rather than doing it online.  Then you can get them to add a message about what it's about.  That's the point when OP JCD can insist that the person paying adds "gold invoice 123456".  This would ensure that the payer knows what their payment is for giving the bank no option on how to deal with any complaints.  There doesn't need to be any mention of potential fraud rather "if you do that then it's easier for my accountant to match the payments to deliveries" or some similar line.  

I must admit I get annoyed that the online banking isn't just a bit more user friendly as I would like to be able to add a message myself when making payments.  In the end I'm reliant on companies getting second, tenth or twentieth payment from me and knowing easily what matches what as I can't add something like "July fees".  (& no I am not in a position to change my bank in the next few years.)

eskbanker

Brie said:

jimjames said:

Teapot55 said:

When the woman paid the deposit into @Jewelscollectingdust ‘s bank account her bank will surely have flagged up that the name on the account wasn’t that of the person she thought she was paying? Why would she ignore that warning? 

That doesn't actually work with many bank accounts and not with businesses. I've recently paid people and one didn't do a check at all, the other check failed but it was genuine. With such a hit & miss success rate it's not surprising that they can get round it.

One way around this being an issue is by making the bank transfer by phoning the bank rather than doing it online.  Then you can get them to add a message about what it's about.  That's the point when OP JCD can insist that the person paying adds "gold invoice 123456".  This would ensure that the payer knows what their payment is for giving the bank no option on how to deal with any complaints.  There doesn't need to be any mention of potential fraud rather "if you do that then it's easier for my accountant to match the payments to deliveries" or some similar line.  

I must admit I get annoyed that the online banking isn't just a bit more user friendly as I would like to be able to add a message myself when making payments.  In the end I'm reliant on companies getting second, tenth or twentieth payment from me and knowing easily what matches what as I can't add something like "July fees".  (& no I am not in a position to change my bank in the next few years.)

Any bank I've ever used for sending faster payments allows the population of a free text reference field from within online banking or app, which is then visible to the recipient - can't remember how many characters it allows (16? 20?) but it should suffice for the purpose described without needing to reinvent anything or make phone calls....

Ed-1

eskbanker said:

Brie said:

jimjames said:

Teapot55 said:

When the woman paid the deposit into @Jewelscollectingdust ‘s bank account her bank will surely have flagged up that the name on the account wasn’t that of the person she thought she was paying? Why would she ignore that warning? 

That doesn't actually work with many bank accounts and not with businesses. I've recently paid people and one didn't do a check at all, the other check failed but it was genuine. With such a hit & miss success rate it's not surprising that they can get round it.

One way around this being an issue is by making the bank transfer by phoning the bank rather than doing it online.  Then you can get them to add a message about what it's about.  That's the point when OP JCD can insist that the person paying adds "gold invoice 123456".  This would ensure that the payer knows what their payment is for giving the bank no option on how to deal with any complaints.  There doesn't need to be any mention of potential fraud rather "if you do that then it's easier for my accountant to match the payments to deliveries" or some similar line.  

I must admit I get annoyed that the online banking isn't just a bit more user friendly as I would like to be able to add a message myself when making payments.  In the end I'm reliant on companies getting second, tenth or twentieth payment from me and knowing easily what matches what as I can't add something like "July fees".  (& no I am not in a position to change my bank in the next few years.)

Any bank I've ever used for sending faster payments allows the population of a free text reference field from within online banking or app, which is then visible to the recipient 

Except if you use Nationwide

eskbanker

Ed-1 said:

eskbanker said:

Brie said:

jimjames said:

Teapot55 said:

When the woman paid the deposit into @Jewelscollectingdust ‘s bank account her bank will surely have flagged up that the name on the account wasn’t that of the person she thought she was paying? Why would she ignore that warning? 

That doesn't actually work with many bank accounts and not with businesses. I've recently paid people and one didn't do a check at all, the other check failed but it was genuine. With such a hit & miss success rate it's not surprising that they can get round it.

One way around this being an issue is by making the bank transfer by phoning the bank rather than doing it online.  Then you can get them to add a message about what it's about.  That's the point when OP JCD can insist that the person paying adds "gold invoice 123456".  This would ensure that the payer knows what their payment is for giving the bank no option on how to deal with any complaints.  There doesn't need to be any mention of potential fraud rather "if you do that then it's easier for my accountant to match the payments to deliveries" or some similar line.  

I must admit I get annoyed that the online banking isn't just a bit more user friendly as I would like to be able to add a message myself when making payments.  In the end I'm reliant on companies getting second, tenth or twentieth payment from me and knowing easily what matches what as I can't add something like "July fees".  (& no I am not in a position to change my bank in the next few years.)

Any bank I've ever used for sending faster payments allows the population of a free text reference field from within online banking or app, which is then visible to the recipient 

Except if you use Nationwide

Not a bank (technically!)

The reference field is widely used for a variety of reasons though, so it surprises me that it's inaccessible with Nationwide's online offering....

Ed-1

eskbanker said:

Ed-1 said:

eskbanker said:

Brie said:

jimjames said:

Teapot55 said:

When the woman paid the deposit into @Jewelscollectingdust ‘s bank account her bank will surely have flagged up that the name on the account wasn’t that of the person she thought she was paying? Why would she ignore that warning? 

That doesn't actually work with many bank accounts and not with businesses. I've recently paid people and one didn't do a check at all, the other check failed but it was genuine. With such a hit & miss success rate it's not surprising that they can get round it.

One way around this being an issue is by making the bank transfer by phoning the bank rather than doing it online.  Then you can get them to add a message about what it's about.  That's the point when OP JCD can insist that the person paying adds "gold invoice 123456".  This would ensure that the payer knows what their payment is for giving the bank no option on how to deal with any complaints.  There doesn't need to be any mention of potential fraud rather "if you do that then it's easier for my accountant to match the payments to deliveries" or some similar line.  

I must admit I get annoyed that the online banking isn't just a bit more user friendly as I would like to be able to add a message myself when making payments.  In the end I'm reliant on companies getting second, tenth or twentieth payment from me and knowing easily what matches what as I can't add something like "July fees".  (& no I am not in a position to change my bank in the next few years.)

Any bank I've ever used for sending faster payments allows the population of a free text reference field from within online banking or app, which is then visible to the recipient 

Except if you use Nationwide

Not a bank (technically!)

The reference field is widely used for a variety of reasons though, so it surprises me that it's inaccessible with Nationwide's online offering....

Nationwide are particularly annoying when it comes to companies that send a small transfer with a security reference to give back to them. E.g. Moneybox with some ISA transfers.

Jewelscollectingdust

Another update 

My husband has taken a couple of days off work to be with me to try and resolve 

This morning we opened a couple of new bank accounts with Starling bank - it was very easy and within an hour or so they were approved
I went to post  office to try and pay a little cash in to get them off the ground - but told  couldn’t do so until the cards arrive 
I was hoping having account numbers would be enough but apparently not 

Then this afternoon we have been to the branch where our accounts are held. 

We took all the proof documents we have with us and also had the foresight to pick up our passports as we suspected they would want ID

As soon as the lady pulled up our account she saw a note flagged up on the file asking that we provide evidence in branch - would have been nice if they had actually messaged us to tell us that !!!!!

Anyway  we had it - she called the fraud team and told them she had seen the email trail and postal labels purchased and Royal Mail proof of delivery 
I asked her to take copies and send them but she declined - saying they just needed sight of documents - not copied - but to keep everything safe

She used the phrase proof of entitlement in terms of our documents she reviewed 
Hearing her side of the discussion with the fraud team she told them her customer was a  victim of the fraud 

It seems our bank has thrown the allegation of fraud back to the rental propertys woman’s bank asking that they provide the evidence for the transaction being fraudulent.

The woman in branch didn’t seem to think it would be long before the freeze got lifted - but couldn’t give any timescale - she said the fraud team had told her the case was now going to Back Office / Room - I don’t quite know what that actually means - maybe somebody here does 

We were allowed to draw some cash - but they did a calculation ( I couldn’t tell you how they came to the numbers )  to determine how much we could have. They looked at salary going in etc etc 
So Cap in hand I was told how much of my own money I could have !!
To  compound matters it will not be enoughto  pay our regular bills ! - never mind anything else and I will likely have to borrow from family if it drags on for any period of time