Bank Transfer Scam

Shakin_Steve

'Best practice' won't protect you from people who are determined to scam you. If a buyer cries foul and contacts their bank, there will always be an investigation.
Hopefully, you will get more information from the bank in due course, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

colsten

Shakin_Steve said:

'Best practice' won't protect you from people who are determined to scam you. If a buyer cries foul and contacts their bank, there will always be an investigation.
Hopefully, you will get more information from the bank in due course, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Agreed.

Though it would obviously make sense for a business to insist that payments carry a unique Reference, such as an invoice number, and reject any payment that does not carry such a Reference, or where the payment amount and Reference don’t match. Not that a Reference would stop a determined scammer but it would make it easier for the Business to run their books.

Jewelscollectingdust

The issue with doing that from my perspective as a seller is as follows 

Let’s say despite everything you tell the customer they still send the funds without reference number 

So you then decide not to send goods - but to return funds to sender instead 

Doesn’t that then become a totally new bank transfer transaction 

This system isn’t like PayPal or eBay where you just hit a refund button and it links the transactions together 

So I am assuming the person if a scammer could still file original payment  as unauthorised transaction ??

Maybe you would call the bank to reverse it ??

Is it possible to refuse funds you are not happy with ??

born_again

Jewelscollectingdust said:

The issue with doing that from my perspective as a seller is as follows 

Let’s days despite everything you tell the customer they still send the funds without reference number 

So you then decide not to send goods - but to return funds to sender instead 

Doesn’t that then become a totally new bank transfer transaction 

This system isn’t like PayPal or eBay where you just hit a refund button and it links the transactions together 

So I am assuming the person if a scammer could still file original payment  as unauthorised transaction ??

You do not get the account details to return a payment anyway. Then would you trust any details you get from anyone? You would need to ask your bank to do it, if they can.

This is the nightmare that many online retailers face.
There is no way to trade that is not open to abuse. Be that Paypal, card payments or bank transfers.

I think that maybe card payments is a better option, as at least any chargeback can be contested.

Fingers crossed that there is a letter on it's way to you with the outcome. 

Brie

Jewelscollectingdust said:

So I am assuming the person if a scammer could still file original payment  as unauthorised transaction ??

Possibly but you would have your proof of having already returned it so the bank shouldn't be able to reclaim it from you.

Jewelscollectingdust

Just a final update as I had a long chat with the bank today regarding the case - which revealed some further details about the scam that I wasn’t previously aware of

I was told - as soon as I handed over bank details for the sale of gold jewellery - The scammer went online and used my bank details on a property website that enabled him to offer a flat for rent.
The lady taken in by his ad had not seen the property in question in person   - she placed deposit payment - sight unseen - which then came to my account given the fact he had used my bank details

I post the gold jewellery 

Lady goes to move into her new rental property and it’s already occupied 
She’s been scammed so files fraud with bank

I asked the question when doing the transfer she did not populate a field that indicated what the funds being sent were actually for ?
The scammer had apparently asked her not to do this - spinning some sort of tale as to why that was not necessary - I don’t know the details

The bank person could not talk specifics of my particular scammer - but said he could discuss only in general terms - but indicated to me this type of criminal activity is usually executed by groups of individuals who cannot generally be traced and who are clever at hiding their identity using VPN etc - he talked about groups possibly linked to organised crime. 
Clearly what is required though is a network of people who are in the U.K. to pick up the Ill gotten gains and goods 

I was asked for the scanners email address and the parcel delivery address  - first time they have really shown any interest in the taking info from the correspondence I had. 

I was asked about the impact on our lives and explained all the issues about my business, household bills,  stress relating to unknown timescale of investigation. Harshness of the measures taken, needing loan from my mum to manage etc etc - I am sure they have heard it all before

His only comment was that maybe they should have allowed my household direct debits to be paid - he filed a complaint about this action on my behalf 

He said the bank had acted entirely appropriately but post investigation now recognised the difficult situation we were put in (that’s putting it mildly) 
I was offered £50 - he was at pains to explain it wasn’t an offer of compensation.

I guess I could have refused and strung it out asking for more -  but that is not what I was ever about here  and I put up no argument - no amount on offer would have put this right for me - so I accepted it at face value as a gesture of good will. 

Over the last couple of days since the unfreeze we had already withdrawn virtually all the funds the bank held for us and made deposits into multiple new accounts
Our long term plan is to now use several different unconnected banks and not have all eggs in one basket - chalk up to experience 
I have not closed the offending accounts - but unsure how much use they will now get - probably not much as so much effort got put into mitigating the effects of this by setting up new banking arrangements

So I am now ready to move on and put this whole experience  to bed

A special thank you to all the knowledgable people here who offered support and really helped me through.
I am not sure I could have managed without you 

Maybe my sorry tale might be dug out of the archives from time to time to help other victims in same or similar situation as I really don’t think this is a scam that will be going away fast.
It was so easy and successful that there will be other victims on the horizon 

cymruchris

Jewelscollectingdust said:

Just a final update as I had a long chat with the bank today regarding the case - which revealed some further details about the scam that I wasn’t previously aware of

I was told - as soon as I handed over bank details for the sale of gold jewellery - The scammer went online and used my bank details on a property website that enabled him to offer a flat for rent.
The lady taken in by his ad had not seen the property in question in person   - she placed deposit payment - sight unseen - which then came to my account given the fact he had used my bank details

I post the gold jewellery 

Lady goes to move into her new rental property and it’s already occupied 
She’s been scammed so files fraud with bank

I asked the question when doing the transfer she did not populate a field that indicated what the funds being sent were actually for ?
The scammer had apparently asked her not to do this - spinning some sort of tale as to why that was not necessary - I don’t know the details

The bank person could not talk specifics of my particular scammer - but said he could discuss only in general terms - but indicated to me this type of criminal activity is usually executed by groups of individuals who cannot generally be traced and who are clever at hiding their identity using VPN etc - he talked about groups possibly linked to organised crime. 
Clearly what is required though is a network of people who are in the U.K. to pick up the Ill gotten gains and goods 

I was asked for the scanners email address and the parcel delivery address  - first time they have really shown any interest in the taking info from the correspondence I had. 

I was asked about the impact on our lives and explained all the issues about my business, household bills,  stress relating to unknown timescale of investigation. Harshness of the measures taken, needing loan from my mum to manage etc etc - I am sure they have heard it all before

His only comment was that maybe they should have allowed my household direct debits to be paid - he filed a complaint about this action on my behalf 

He said the bank had acted entirely appropriately but post investigation now recognised the difficult situation we were put in (that’s putting it mildly) 
I was offered £50 - he was at pains to explain it wasn’t an offer of compensation.

I guess I could have refused and strung it out asking for more -  but that is not what I was ever about here  and I put up no argument - no amount on offer would have put this right for me - so I accepted it at face value as a gesture of good will. 

Over the last couple of days since the unfreeze we had already withdrawn virtually all the funds the bank held for us and made deposits into multiple new accounts
Our long term plan is to now use several different unconnected banks and not have all eggs in one basket - chalk up to experience 
I have not closed the offending accounts - but unsure how much use they will now get - probably not much as so much effort got put into mitigating the effects of this by setting up new banking arrangements

So I am now ready to move on and put this whole experience  to bed

A special thank you to all the knowledgable people here who offered support and really helped me through.
I am not sure I could have managed without you 

Maybe my sorry tale might be dug out of the archives from time to time to help other victims in same or similar situation as I really don’t think this is a scam that will be going away fast.
It was so easy and successful that there will be other victims on the horizon 

You didn't actually mention whether you'd got your money back (unless I missed it) - but I'm guessing from the tone of the post that you did?

colsten

Thanks for providing another update. I trust you were allowed to keep the money the "flat" lady sent to you? So she's the one who lost out in this saga, unless she got reimbursed by her or your bank, which seems unlikely.

Jewelscollectingdust

yes - I was allowed to keep the money 
no attempt was made to take it from me by the bank 

Ed-1

colsten said:

Thanks for providing another update. I trust you were allowed to keep the money the "flat" lady sent to you? So she's the one who lost out in this saga, unless she got reimbursed by her or your bank, which seems unlikely.

Given she was the one duped, isn't that a reason for a refund from her bank?