Bank Transfer Scam

colsten

pbartlett said:

yes that's what they do - act as judge, jury and executioner. Please name the bank

Pick any name. They are all doing the same.

eskbanker

colsten said:

pbartlett said:

yes that's what they do - act as judge, jury and executioner. Please name the bank

Pick any name. They are all doing the same.

To be fair, they're all obliged to do the same - they're not acting as judge, jury and executioner in that there is no accusation of guilt as such, just a temporary freezing of accounts while the due process of investigation (mandated by AML legislation) is followed....

soulsaver

From my perspective:

While dealing with a buyer on the internet, whom you've never met, can't be certain of identity and address(always wary);

with a story about bank transfer not working (but you've never had a problem before (more wary));

received a payment from a person (possible accomplice/ mule/ fraud victim) not party to the sale contract, (alarm bells);

whom you've never communicated with, whose identity you've taken the 'buyers' word for and who's address is also unknown;

while you were (likely, IMO) trying to avoid selling fees (but giving up the platform protection);

shipped £1400 goods insured for £500 (sharp intake, lacking proof of addresses);

and you're not able to claim anyway because RM have POD from the named buyer at given address.

And you all think this was plausible?

Just saying...

jimjames

MR1988 said:

But is it possible that the person who sent the money is on the scam as well? What if they work together and then the "house deposit" victim just pretends to have gotten scammed?

Also, aren't people supposed to get a written paper or invoice for paying deposits? Why would someone pay a deposit for a house they have not seen and to a person they have not met?

Sadly some people do. The scammers are very convincing or it wouldn't be happening. If property is in demand and you keep missing out you may well be taking in by it if a property asks for deposit. If the scammers weren't good at what they do we wouldn't get posts from people who have lost money.

pbartlett

@soulsaver is right in that there were a few red flags here. Even I thought on first reading your original post that the tale about the 'payment not going through' was a bit fishy.

That said, it was a very clever scam.

born_again

Jewelscollectingdust said:

This glaring hole in the system requires that the banks take some responsibility. 
The fact the bank transfer system can so easily be manipulated in this way cannot be right. The system needs tightening up to eliminate this scenario being possible

I cannot be the first person this happened to and I definitely will not be the last

In my view the banks should hold responsibility to make the system safe and fit for purpose 

I have never heard of this one, in the way if has been done. Using another person saying that they have been scammed on a different matter.  Involved or not, Hard to say. That is something their bank will be looking at. Will only be able to do it once, anymore and it will be picked up. 
But scams mutate & fraudsters always think of new ways.

Scams like this did not happen when payments took 3 days. But the public wanted instant access to their money. There is only so much banks can do.
I can not think of anyway that you can stop this type of scam. As no matter how a retailer takes payment there is a risk of a scam.
Cash = Counterfeit
Cheque = Stolen or Counterfeit
Paypal = Hacked account
Bank transfer = Hacked account/mule accounts or fraudster collusion.

Only red flag would have been purchaser saying could not make transfer, but that is with hindsight & can happen.

If you could shed any light on what you think could stop it then please share. 

This is not aimed at you. 👍
But banks are being forced to payout millions to people who do not take notice of scam warnings. Ignore advice given & then expect to get their money back.

Jewelscollectingdust

Some of soulsavers comments are wrong 

I did not ship uninsured - I insured the parcel with Royal Mail for £2500 

I also have done transactions away from eBay before without problem  - it’s not the only platform I sell with
if the buyer doesn’t contact there using the eBay messaging system  - I don’t see it as an eBay sale 

I also feel stressed and somewhat attacked here - I am a trader not a banker and everyone I’ve ever spoke to regarding bank transfer had always told me it’s safe - I wouldn’t have done it otherwise

i feel stupid enough already 

if anyone can help me constructively I would appreciate it as the thread is just making me more and more upset 

cymruchris

Jewelscollectingdust said:

Some of soulsavers comments are wrong 

I did not ship uninsured - I insured the parcel with Royal Mail for £2500 

I also have done transactions away from eBay before without problem  - it’s not the only platform I sell with
if the buyer doesn’t contact there using the eBay messaging system  - I don’t see it as an eBay sale 

I also feel stressed and somewhat attacked here - I am a trader not a banker and everyone I’ve ever spoke to regarding bank transfer had always told me it’s safe - I wouldn’t have done it otherwise

i feel stupid enough already 

if anyone can help me constructively I would appreciate it as the thread is just making me more and more upset 

It is the nature of forums where members will pick apart a story to work out what happened, how it could have been prevented, or how it can be prevented from happening again - and during those discussions sometimes it feels like the OP is under scrutiny for the things they did - and it sounds like it's all their fault, and how dumb could they have been. 

To be fair - from my perspective, I wouldn't have considered this 'scam' as a risk, and it's not something I've ever heard of before, and just you sharing the story has helped me add a mental note to falling for anything similar in future - so you're helping people by having the discussion.

There's probably not a lot you can do in the short term with your accounts themselves - so you might want to get yourself another account open asap - (something like Monzo or Starling would get you up and running quite quickly) - and of course all of your current funds are frozen, but if you've got yourself a functioning bank account with one of the above - you could have a fire sale and get a couple of things sold quickly to get some emergency funds in, and keep you on an even keel while the investigation carries on. (From my understanding - and not personal experience - these investigations can take weeks - so you're better off getting your backup account up and running asap).

From what you've said - I likely would have fallen into the same trap - but for now it's damage limitation to get yourself back on your feet while everything gets sorted out, no matter what the outcome. 

Don't feel pressured by any of the comments you read, as you'll be going through a fairly stressful time, it's just what the internet does in a situation like this - and it doesn't always feel 'friendly' from your perspective, but people are just trying to work out what's what. Do keep coming back and updating as to your progress though - I very much hope you get a positive outcome. (If you don't it's a loss - but it's money - and money can be replaced - nobody likes to lose money - but it's something you can recover from once you're all sorted out with your accounts)

eskbanker

Jewelscollectingdust said:

if anyone can help me constructively I would appreciate it as the thread is just making me more and more upset

I don't think anyone is trying to make you feel stupid and most of the comments should be taken in a positive way, i.e. how to avoid such problems in future.

You obviously know now that bank transfers aren't irrevocable when there's fraud alleged but have had pointers about safeguards and checks that you can apply when transacting online, as well as reasons why it isn't particularly viable to park liability for this scam at the door of the banks, tempting though it undoubtedly is to look for scapegoats.

You mention having all your business and personal accounts with the same bank and this is another area where you can improve your situation - it's often recommended on here that people have accessible money in multiple sources, i.e. different banking groups, in order to minimise risk of this exact scenario (as well as resilience against technical outages, etc).

Obviously it's impractical for anyone on here to intervene in terms of resolving this particular short term issue though, so unfortunately you're in the hands of your bank to go through their investigation, frustrating though that will be....

Thrugelmir

cymruchris said:

Jewelscollectingdust said:

Some of soulsavers comments are wrong 

I did not ship uninsured - I insured the parcel with Royal Mail for £2500 

I also have done transactions away from eBay before without problem  - it’s not the only platform I sell with
if the buyer doesn’t contact there using the eBay messaging system  - I don’t see it as an eBay sale 

I also feel stressed and somewhat attacked here - I am a trader not a banker and everyone I’ve ever spoke to regarding bank transfer had always told me it’s safe - I wouldn’t have done it otherwise

i feel stupid enough already 

if anyone can help me constructively I would appreciate it as the thread is just making me more and more upset 

It is the nature of forums where members will pick apart a story to work out what happened, 

We'll never know the truth. Unfortunately the world is full of unscrupulous people.  The only thing we can do at a personal level is learn from the experience and move on.  We all make errors of judgement.