Euro Car Parks parking fine (staying after store had closed)

cyberScammed

cyberScammed said:

Draft appeal to POPLA below (I have attached as a PDF as was to large to fit in a single message):

• Draft Appeal 2

excluding the copy and paste error that was previously mentioned. Is this appeal fit for purpose? and is there any reason not to  submit immediately?

Cheers

Coupon-mad

Remove #5 entirely as POPLA won't consider it and we never had any transcript for the Fox-Jones case, which didn't set a precedent anyway.

And change everything from 'PCN' and 'NTK' to Notice to Hirer, so POPLA don't miss that this is a NTH situation:

1). Euro car parks Parking Charge Notice Notice to Hirer is not compliant with the Protection of

Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA) by not providing the correct documentation.

The Notice to Hirer Keeper that was sent to me as hirer, was a single sheet of paper and is not compliant with either the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 or BPA code of practice.

cyberScammed

Completed the recommended updates for my POPLA appeal and will submit this evening (see here).
Will update once I hear back, thanks again for all your help.

cyberScammed

Good evening,

I received an update today from POPLA informing me ECP have uploaded an evidence back, giving me 7 days to respond. 
I have attached  a slightly redacted version of the bloated 32 page document (Here).

If my understanding is correct,  because ECP only sent me through the single page NTH with no additional documents as per POFA/BPA, I will still win the POPLA appeal? Is there any need to respond to their evidence?

Regards,

Coupon-mad

Is there any need to respond to their evidence?

Yes because POPLA assessors are just not good enough, sadly, so you have to lead them to the winning point.  The NEWBIES thread about POPLA tells you about this (limited words) 'comments stage'.

cyberScammed

Yes because POPLA assessors are just not good enough, sadly, so you have to lead them to the winning point.  The NEWBIES thread about POPLA tells you about this (limited words) 'comments stage'.

No problem, I will get on this tonight! (I was hoping ECP would have given up by now **very wishful thinking**)

Coupon-mad

You need to state firstly that:

The fact that the NTK sent to ARVAL was a POFA version, means nothing because the NTH that was then sent to you, wasn't.  Whilst ECP have shown POPLA a letter received from ARVAL giving the hirer's details, that letter is not the HIRE AGREEMENT and neither was it (or anything) enclosed with the NTH, which arrived as a single page document.  ECP don't claim otherwise.

And I see that the '2 hours rule' time is not the same on the signs as ECP say it now is, in their evidence.   The opening hours have changed since those pictures of signs were taken.  The store is open until 11pm weekdays, as the evidence pack confirms and so does the store website: https://stores.sainsburys.co.uk/2331/sutton

So all the signage images are out of date. The rules now allow 2 hours parking for parking events until 11pm Monday-Friday.  Well the driver parked just after 10pm so the contract concluded at a time when the driver was allowed to park for 2 hours (i.e. park at 10.05pm, you can stay until five minutes past midnight). 

Even if POPLA feel that the overlap between the 'park for 2 hrs' rule and the '10 minutes' rule is ambiguous about when it starts, any ambiguity of terms MUST by law be interpreted in the way that most favours the consumer (CRA 2015).  In addition, the point when the contract is made is when the driver arrives & parks, so the current hours as per the evidence park allow a person arriving up until 11pm to stay for 2 hours. 

Even if POPLA are not convinced by that, the fact that the photos of the signs are out of date and the 'store closed' hours have changed, means that and none of the pictures of old signs (that say 10pm weekdays) are reliable as evidence.  POPLA is an evidence based service and cannot accept photos of old signs that don't match the operational hours the evidence pack admits and exposes have changed.

Coupon-mad

The above is under the 2000 character limit.

cyberScammed

Thanks @Coupon-mad, that is really helpful! Great spot with the dodgy signage!

I will submit something along the lines of the following (which totals 1834 characters): 

1.      Case Summary and Rule/Conditions

As pointed out by ECP, my appeal grounds are related to their lack of compliance with POFA. They only sent me through the ‘Notice To Hirer’ as single page document (as documented on pages 8 and 9 of ECP evidence pack), and failed to include the additional documents outlined within both the POFA and BCP CoP.

2.      Copy of NTK

Although to Notice to Keep sent to ARVAL was a POFA version, the NTH I received was not (as shown in their evidence). 

 3.     Registered keeper details

Whilst ECP have shown POPLA a letter received from ARVAL giving the hirer's details, that letter is not the HIRE AGREEMENT and neither was it (or anything) enclosed with the NTH, which arrived as a single page document.  ECP don't claim otherwise.

4.       Signage/images of car park

The '2 hours rule' time is not the same on the signs as ECP say it now is, as shown in their evidence.   The opening hours have changed since those pictures of signs were taken.  The store is open until 11pm weekdays, as the evidence pack confirms and so does the store website: https://stores.sainsburys.co.uk/2331/sutton

All of the signage images are out of date. The rules now allow 2 hours parking for parking events until 11pm Monday-Friday.  As the driver parked just after 10pm, therefore the contract concluded at a time when the driver was allowed to park for 2 hours (i.e. park at 10.05pm, you can stay until five minutes past midnight). 

The overlap between the 'park for 2 hrs' rule and the '10 minutes' rule is ambiguous about when it starts, any ambiguity of terms MUST by law be interpreted in the way that most favours the consumer (CRA 2015).  In addition, the point when the contract is made is when the driver arrives & parks, so the current hours as per the evidence park allow a person arriving up until 11pm to stay for 2 hours. 

Coupon-mad

Can you add this as a conclusion and a nudge:

POPLA is an evidence based service and cannot accept photos of old signs that don't match the operational hours the evidence pack admits and exposes have changed.