Euro Car Parks parking fine (staying after store had closed)

cyberScammed

Background:

I received a parking ticket from Euro car parks for a shopping trip to Sainsbury’s followed by a session at the Gym (all under 2 hours), having being recorded by the ANPR cameras on the entrance and exit to the car park.  

 

The story:

I received a parking notice charge from Euro Car Parks (ECP) titled ‘Notice to Hirer’ stating “your vehicle was parked longer than the maximum period allowed” on 26/6.

I was unsure what they meant as the entry and exit photos of my number plate show I was parked for under 2 hours (which is the maximum you can stay in the car park).

Also the letter is referring to an event that occurred back on the 10th May which seems like quite a long period ago, is there not a cut-off date for this sort of thing?

On this particular visit, I spent over £20 on shopping before going to the gym.  

 

The letter I received- apparently I have to be using the blog bit longer to add links, so I have pasted below:

euro cor parks   NOTICE TO HIRER      BPA

Date of Event:10/05/2021

Date Issued:23/06/2021

Telephone Payment Number.020 3553 4550

Date:23/06/2021

PARKING CHARGE NOTICE AMOUNT DUE: £70.00 PAYMENT TO BE MADE WITHIN 21 DAYS OF THE DATE ISSUED: by

This parking charge is discounted to £40.00 if paid within 14 days of the date issued: by 07/07/2021 After this date, the full parking charge amount will be owed.

ZKY entered Sainsburys Sutton, at 22:00:33 and departed at 23:53:33 on 10/05/2021.

Entry 10/05/2021 22:00:33

Exit 10/05/2021 23:63:33

Location: Sainsburys - Sutton

On 10/05/2021 the vehicle: I

The driver of the vehicle breached the terms and conditions of use (as outlined on signage throughout the site) Contravention: Your vehicle was parked longer than the maximum period allowed

The vehicle was parked at Sainsburys - Sutton, 287a High Street, Sutton, Surrey, SM1 1LD, by remaining at the car park without authorisation, in accordance with the terms and conditions set out in the signage, the Parking Charge is now payable to Euro Car

Parks (as the Creditor).

We requested the registered keeper's details from the DVLA and a Notice to Keeper was subsequently issued to the registered keeper of the vehicle containing full details of the charge.

We have been advised by the registered keeper that you were the hirer of the vehicle at the time of the event. Payment is now required in the sum of £70.00 (discounted to £40.00 If paid within 14 days) which must be paid no later than 21 days from the date this notice is given.

Failure to pay the full amount of this notice within 21 days may result in the proceeding of debt recovery action and /or issuing

court proceedings against you. Additional costs may be incurred. If you were not the driver at the time of the event please provide the driver's full name and address using the contact details

below within 21 days.

Payment Information: Online: www.eurocarparks.com, Telephone: 020 3553 4559, Post: PCN Payments ECP 30 Dorset Sq.

London NW1 6QJ

Appeals and Transfer of Liability

All appeals, complaints and transfer of liability must be put in writing, and be received within 21 days of the issue date of this notice. Change of liability: COL@eurocarparks.com. Appeals: www.eurocarparks.com. Please include all information to assist with the appeal. The charge will be placed on hold until an appeal outcome is provided. If your appeal is unsuccessful, you will be advised in writing/email (within 35 days). If the driver makes an appeal which is unsuccessful, they will also be provided with details of how to further appeal to the independent appeals service POPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals) along with a unique reference number. Please note, POPLA will not accept an appeal if you have not appealed to ourselves in the first instance.

If you appeal to POPLA and your appeal is rejected, you will lose the option to pay the reduced amount.

_____________________________________________________________________

 My plan:

1.      Contact the supermarket to contest, providing evidence of my nearly £25 transaction, and prove I was parked for less than 2 hours.

This has been unsuccessful 

2.      Raise an appeal using the template on the Newbies thread. (as per below)

If unsuccessful:

3.      Raise a second appeal to POPLA (further research on this forum)

If unsuccessful:

4.      Cry (lol)

 

My actions to date:

Having received the letter through the post and noticed the date of “parking breach” being 10/5, with today being 26/6 and, I assumed this was longer than the required notice period, but not sure?

I also noticed that my arrival time at the car park was listed as 22:00:33 and leaving time 23:53:33 (so exactly 1h53mins), which is under the 2 hour maximum stay allowed.

The letter states that’s “my vehicle was parked longer than the maximum period allowed”.

After some initial research online, I found MoneySavingExpert Forum for the first time.

Actions I have followed to date:

• Step 1 (day 1): I phoned Sainsbury’s customer services line, explained the situation and was advised to go into the store, go to customer services and speak to the duty manager regarding the situation.
• I drive to the store (25 mins drive), approach the customer service desk with my parking charge notice in hand and ask to speak to the Duty manager regarding a parking charge. The customer service assistant asked to look at the notice and asked me if I used the gym.
• I answered “yes, after spending nearly £25 in store beforehand” while providing proof of my transaction”, but as soon as I uttered the word “yes” so proceeded to ignore everything else I said, and told me there was no point getting the duty manager out as “Euro car parks own the car park and I will be required to appeal through them directly.
• I then followed by asking to speak to the duty manager again as I had been told by the customer service agent when I phoned, otherwise I would not have bothered to drive all the way to the store.
• She proceeded to voice a message over the tannoy asking for the manager to come to the customer services desk. After nearly 10 minutes has passed and no one turns up, she makes a phone call. I am then told that the manager is not going to come to speak to me as they would only repeat what had already been explained that I need to contact euro car parks. Explaining that as Sainsbury’s had closed at 11pm on the day, I would have had to have been out of the car park by 11:10pm and I was in breach of the parking conditions. (at least I now know what they are trying to fine me for!)
• I phoned back the customer services team, explained the situation and they have raised with the executive team and I am expecting to hear back within the next 7 days.
• On the 28/6: received an email asking me to forward on the parking charge notice and proof of my purchase (which I provided)
• On the 29/6: received a follow up email saying they had spoken to the store and that it is my duty to comply with the parking regulations for the site as the store closed at 11pm so I would need to raise with ECP.

My plan now is to submit the following (very much expecting this to be declined):

Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

_____________________________________

Any help or suggestions would be really appreciated, Thanks

Umkomaas

As your vehicle seems to be hired/leased, ECP's first port of call would have been to the hire/lease company. The company would have informed ECP of your name and address (check you credit card to see if the hire company hasn't charged you an admin fee for that). This would account for the perceived delay, but it seems to me that it's within the limits. 

Where ECP will have 'gone wrong' is probably not supplying the required documentation (copy of your hire agreement and related paperwork) with the Notice to Hirer as per the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) paras 13 and 14 - go check that out. 

The initial appeal you are proposing isn't the correct one for a hire/lease vehicle. Scroll further down that first post on the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, and find the one written by @EdnaBasher (there are three I think, pick the correct one. That's your starting point; you can get this overturned at POPLA. 

cyberScammed

Thanks @Umkomaas for your help. They must have gone through my company or Arval to collect me details.

Umkomaas said:

The initial appeal you are proposing isn't the correct one for a hire/lease vehicle. Scroll further down that first post on the NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, and find the one written by @EdnaBasher (there are three I think, pick the correct one. That's your starting point; you can get this overturned at POPLA. 

will be using this instead:
"
Parking Charge Notice [0123456789]: Vehicle Registration [AA11ABC]

I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued to me by Euro Car Parks Ltd (“ECP”) as a Notice to Hirer. I confirm that as the hirer of this vehicle, I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) and I write to formally challenge the validity of this PCN.

You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why Euro Car Parks Notice to Hirer did not comply with POFA; in order that you may understand why, I suggest that you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.

Given that Euro Car Parks has forfeited its right to keeper liability, please confirm that you shall now cancel this charge. Alternatively, should you choose to reject my challenge, please provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact details and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate the matter to POPLA.

Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.


Yours faithfully,
"

Question: Is there any reason to delay sending the 1st appear or good to send anytime?

Cheers

Redx

Appealing as hirer can be done in a timely fashion , no need to delay

ECP do not own the car park , they are contractors , nothing more

A complaint to the landowner may work , be careful to never imply who was driving

D_P_Dance

Have you complained to your MP?

cyberScammed

Redx said:

Appealing as hirer can be done in a timely fashion , no need to delay 

ECP do not own the car park , they are contractors , nothing more

A complaint to the landowner may work , be careful to never imply who was driving

Perfect thanks!
I thought that was the case! Sainsbury's were not interested in the slightest, will think twice before shopping there! (I feel like they have the authority to get these cancelled)

cyberScammed

D_P_Dance said:

Have you complained to your MP?

I've not (to date anyway). My dad told me he had a similar experience and after going to our local MP, was informed that its highly unlikely to be let off any parking charging in the borough. He paid the fine. 

Leading me to question if its worth the effort?

KeithP

cyberScammed said:

D_P_Dance said:

Have you complained to your MP?

I've not (to date anyway). My dad told me he had a similar experience and after going to our local MP, was informed that its highly unlikely to be let off any parking charging in the borough. He paid the fine. 

Leading me to question if its worth the effort?

One thing is certain...

If no-one ever complains about anything then nothing will change.

You must decide whether it is 'worth the effort'.

Coupon-mad

cyberScammed said:

D_P_Dance said:

Have you complained to your MP?

I've not (to date anyway). My dad told me he had a similar experience and after going to our local MP, was informed that its highly unlikely to be let off any parking charging in the borough. He paid the fine. 

Leading me to question if its worth the effort?

What, even though it's impossible for you to lose at POPLA, as hirer?

D_P_Dance

One thing is certain...If no-one ever complains about anything then nothing will change.

First they came for the socialists ...

cyberScammed

Coupon-mad said:

cyberScammed said:

D_P_Dance said:

Have you complained to your MP?

I've not (to date anyway). My dad told me he had a similar experience and after going to our local MP, was informed that its highly unlikely to be let off any parking charging in the borough. He paid the fine. 

Leading me to question if its worth the effort?

What, even though it's impossible for you to lose at POPLA, as hirer?

I am not sure of my Dads exact parking circumstances, I know he complained to our local MP and to the store directly but go no where. He paid after that. (this was not the same location I received my ticket at)

I am up for the fight! Submitted my appeal last night so just waiting to hear back now. Will keep you posted.

Appreciate all the help, what I great forum! Thanks all