PCN - Premier Parking Logistics

Coupon-mad

akramir said:

Redx said:

Hard to say , what contravention are they alleging ? 

They were alleging that car was parked on private land i.e. driver was not using the facilities at the time of parking.

Which is true.

 when my wife went to pick up the kids from school and there was no other parking available so she parked outside a mattress shop.

Are you not aware that you can park on street, even on a double or single yellow, to escort children as long as you don't take more than a few minutes? 

The very last thing to ever do is look for a private car park and not read signs.

Please tell your wife to park on street in future, when collecting the children, even if a few roads back (ideally not on yellows but it IS 'exempt activity' on single or double yellow lines, if she is quick to collect them and there are no 'kerb blips' in yellow at right angles to the double yellows.

Snakes_Belly

Coupon-mad said:

akramir said:

Redx said:

Hard to say , what contravention are they alleging ? 

They were alleging that car was parked on private land i.e. driver was not using the facilities at the time of parking.

Which is true.

 when my wife went to pick up the kids from school and there was no other parking available so she parked outside a mattress shop.

Are you not aware that you can park on street, even on a double or single yellow, to escort children as long as you don't take more than a few minutes? 

The very last thing to ever do is look for a private car park and not read signs.

Please tell your wife to park on street in future, when collecting the children, even if a few roads back (ideally not on yellows but it IS 'exempt activity' on single or double yellow lines, if she is quick to collect them and there are no 'kerb blips' in yellow at right angles to the double yellows.

This is all red route so could not stop on the road. Seems mad having red route lines outside school. There must be occasions when children have to be taken to school in a car.

The school looks like a Victorian building so would haven been there well before the red route. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.431229,-1.8441239,3a,75y,187.77h,94.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slWFG7MSi_FySdKsJ5HiNgw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

The school is close to the car park. 

Coupon-mad

Google StreetView shows only part of the main road is 24/7 red route. 

I found a couple of neaby cul-de-sacs and closes that are not and there will be more side roads too.

Also there are red route (part time as per sign) bays just along by the trees, although this sign has confused me completely:

https://goo.gl/maps/rDpBkiDJY51YQiUcA

Can't work out why the bottom panel conflicts with the middle panel. 

Can you park at 8.30am or 3.30pm for a while?  Can you load/unload or collect/drop off children at those times?  I don't know and I normally get these signs.  My daughter has lived in London and she just looked at the sign and frowned, too!    We don't know.

Le_Kirk

I guess it is trying to show that you cannot stop there between 7 am and 4 pm but you can park there after 4 pm and before 7 am.  Could be phrased better though!

Coupon-mad

I asked @bargepole to explain it to me and he said:

I can’t – the two parts of the sign contradict each other, and if it went before a TPT adjudicator, I think he would find in favour of the motorist, applying the principle of contra proferentem.

Never seen a red route bay sign where one panel says no stopping and one says 'actually you can' within the banned hours!

Le_Kirk

Coupon-mad said:

I asked @bargepole to explain it to me and he said:

I can’t – the two parts of the sign contradict each other, and if it went before a TPT adjudicator, I think he would find in favour of the motorist, applying the principle of contra proferentem.

Never seen a red route bay sign where one panel says no stopping and one says 'actually you can' within the banned hours!

Isn't it saying Parking OK, EXCEPT between the banned hours or am I reading it wrongly?

Coupon-mad

I really don't know what it means.

My best guess is, the middle panel applies to the fact it's a no-stopping bay for those full hours, and the bottom panel 'except' is actually talking about a loading allowance and relates to the 'no loading' logo top left of the top panel.

In other words (I think!) ignore the middle panel if loading, unloading, dropping off or collecting a minor or setting down a passenger for a few minutes because that's actually exempt activity during the allowed hours ('except').

But I'd be concerned about parking with a Blue badge for 3 hours (normally allowed in a place where loading is OK).  I bet PCNs are issued there wrongly!

Still scratching my head.

akramir

Hey folks so I’ll be responding formally to DCB Legal with the below text.

Dear DCBLegal

Your ref: (enter DCBLegal reference here not parking charge reerence)

Vehicle registration: 

THIS IS A FORMAL RESPONSE MADE UNDER PAP FOR DEBT AND MUST NOT BE TAKEN AS A SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST!

I am in receipt of your non compliant Letter of Claim dated xxxxxxxxx. 

Your correspondence does not meet the terms and conditions of Pre-Action Protocols For Debt Claims 2017. Specifically it fails Par 3: INITIAL INFORMATION TO BE PROVIDED BY THE CREDITOR of the Protocols by failing to serve the Annexe Documents, Reply Form or the financial statement form.

I also note that you have added £60 to the original charge contrary to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, the Beavis Judgment and the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

It is also a well known fact that parking operators are required to offer a reduced rate on issue of the parking charges which then increases to cover additional collection activities hence the £60 is classed as penal in nature.  

DCBLegal and your client must comply with their obligations under the Pre-Action Protocol and provide all the documentation on which they intend to rely:

1. Evidence as to who is the landowner of the subject car park, or any other legal entity that has a proprietary interest in the land.

2. A copy of the written contract between the owner of the car park and your client. This needs to show that authority was given by the owner to operate and issue parking charge notices on the date of the alleged contraventions as well as authority to issue claims.

3. Evidence that advertising consent, granted by the relevant Local Authority, is available for the signage at the subject car park on the date of the alleged events. 

4. Copies of all documents and evidence which your client holds in connection with this charge and/or vehicle registration relating to this PCN including photographic evidence for the date of the event, including any signage dated and geo stamped.

5. An explanation of the authority your client intend to rely on with regard to the £60 add on amount. Please note that your client's AOS trade body's code of practice is not an authority as it has no legal status.

6. Confirmation if you are pursuing me as the keeper or driver.

7. Copies of all data held on me (the registered keeper). This should include but not limited to, electronic records, written records, phone call recordings and any "secret" notes that your system may permit you to enter.

8. Detailed explanation on how my data has been managed, which other companies it has been shared with and written explanation on how they manage that data.

9. Copies of all communications made to your client from any authorised third party.

 Please ensure all documents are sent to the listed address only.

Please ensure you allow sufficient time from posting these document for me to receive and respond accordingly after seeking legal advice.

I wish to make it very clear, my response in no way admits who was driving nor does it accept liability for any alleged debt.

I wish to make it clear that under Pre Action Protocol (for debt) section 5.2 it states

If a debtor requests a document or information, the creditor must

     a) Provide the document or information or

     b) explain why the document is unavailable within 30 days of receipt of the request.

I wish to make it clear I fully intend on defending this claim and will be seeking my own costs from your client should this matter go to court and the case is found in my favour.

Should DCBLegal not have the information then you are instructed to obtain this from your client.

I await your reply. 

Yours faithfully

Xxxxxx

(registered keeper)

Considering they may still take me court after this and add court costs on top do you recommend I send this or write to PPL to try and reduce the original fine and offer to pay the initial payment? 

akramir

Folks - Just following up on this. Do I have a chance of winning with my defence or is it time to hand in the towel?

a bit disappointed that I followed all recommendations on this forum only now it seems very likely that down at this late that my defense is looking weak…. And they may take me to court hence my fees is only likely to increase…

Would appreciate urgent advise on this so I can plan my next move.

95Rollers

I would personally fight it. £160 is a big hit and even if you lost in court- the judge is likely to knock off their inflated add on fees - which they are now banned from adding on.
PPL have lost loads if cases in court.  Even if they were to beat you they'd likely lose more money than what they'd make. Whereas if you pay now they'd likely both get money for nothing. So out of principal it's worth a punt! I'd ride it out and vigorously defend it!