Not sure my redundancy is being done legally

 My organisation has recently notified 42 members of staff of their intentions to make us redundant as a money saving and restructuring process. As it’s a group we are being collectively consulted. The final date for all this is 30th June. However we were formally notified in March. I have since discovered in our published business plan (Feb 2021) That the main functionality of my team was already forecast as being carried out by a completely different department and team. I did question this at the time and was told that it was an error as this had not been formally agreed. However we had an email from the manager of the department at the time asking for our help to move this across! I would greatly appreciate a legal eagle having a thought on this. I thought it may be constructive dismissal. This is a team of 7 people.
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  • TBagpuss
    TBagpuss Posts: 11,198
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    It may still be legal - although in the consultation it may be worth your while to look at how the pool of people at risk has been selected - you might be able to argue that the pool should include your team and the other team, if you are doing similar work so they could look at consolidating the two into a single, smaller team. 

    Are you in a union? 
    All posts are my personal opinion, not formal advice Always get proper, professional advice (particularly about anything legal!)
  • Thank you we don’t have a union just a staff forum. I have raised that with them. Our team was the only one that was devolved and put up for restructuring. By doing this all our Jobs were officially made redundant. New roles were created at lower salaries that we all had to apply for with full applications and interviews being held. The team where our function went was a totally different department...we are really struggling with it as our HR seems to be telling different things to different people.... 
  • Thrugelmir
    Thrugelmir Posts: 89,546
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    There's nothing wrong in restructuring a business. Needs must. Particularly in this post Covid era. Easy to take matters personally. From the management's perspective the entire focus is on the survival of the business. At risk employees are required to be offered alternative available positions within the organisation. Might just be the first wholesale change with more to follow.  Change takes time to implement. 
  • There's nothing wrong in restructuring a business. Needs must. Particularly in this post Covid era. Easy to take matters personally. From the management's perspective the entire focus is on the survival of the business. At risk employees are required to be offered alternative available positions within the organisation. Might just be the first wholesale change with more to follow.  Change takes time to implement. 
    Thank you I do appreciate that. My question is about the process as it was my understanding that consultation was just that. Especially as we had been told no decision had been made. Which is why we all go through a dialogue with HR and the SMT to look at their thoughts. The fact that this was clearly a decision that had been made prior to consultation leads me to think it could be considered as constructive dismissal. That’s what I am hoping to get some guidance on. But thank you.
  • It won’t be a constructive dismissal, you won’t be resigning.   I agree with the commenter who mentioned the redundancy pool.  If two departments are involved why are staff from only one at risk?
  • Thrugelmir
    Thrugelmir Posts: 89,546
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    PEEBITE said:
    There's nothing wrong in restructuring a business. Needs must. Particularly in this post Covid era. Easy to take matters personally. From the management's perspective the entire focus is on the survival of the business. At risk employees are required to be offered alternative available positions within the organisation. Might just be the first wholesale change with more to follow.  Change takes time to implement. 
    The fact that this was clearly a decision that had been made prior to consultation leads me to think it could be considered as constructive dismissal.
    The purpose of consultation isn't for employees to reverse strategic decisions made at senior management level. 
  • Brie
    Brie Posts: 9,271
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    Personally I suspect that redundancies are agreed way in advance of any consultation and then someone finds a way to deal with it so it appears within the rules.  For example I have been in redundancy where the roles have been transferred to a different part of the company where pay/expenses are lower - basically offshoring.  the same work is being done within the same company, just elsewhere and there's no option of moving with the role.  And this has usually included me training someone who will ultimately get my job.

    And every time this has happened the official line is that "we are consulting with the unions/HR etc" and when this process is finished we will let you know what will happen.  

    Most employers are smart enough to know that they have to do things within in the law and that constructive dismissal could be costly so it's unlikely it's a route that will work out for you.  Better perhaps to concentrate on whether there are other roles in the company that you could move to or if not, then getting your cv in order for the big job hunt.  And that you are getting all the right payments from your employer when you leave.   
    "Never retract, never explain, never apologise; get things done and let them howl.”
  • prowla
    prowla Posts: 13,095
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    It seems logical that discussions & plans would be laid out before the affected employees would be notified; it's probably a legal requirement to have them in place before telling any staff they're going to be let go.
  • dcfc67
    dcfc67 Posts: 397
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    Can ACAS help you, have a look on the ACAS website for help or support
  • getmore4less
    getmore4less Posts: 46,882
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    PEEBITE said:
    Thank you we don’t have a union just a staff forum. I have raised that with them. Our team was the only one that was devolved and put up for restructuring. By doing this all our Jobs were officially made redundant. New roles were created at lower salaries that we all had to apply for with full applications and interviews being held. The team where our function went was a totally different department...we are really struggling with it as our HR seems to be telling different things to different people.... 
    That's the dodgy bit because once you apply you have accepted that the jobs applied for are suitable alternatives.

    Very important not to fall into that trap and end up with a job you don't want.

    The approach should always be I will be happy to be considered for any suitable alternatives and rejecting any that are not suitable.

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