Moving Monday - big problem with removal company - advice please!

nightsong

So here's the story. We are meant to be moving on Monday and the removal company sent me a request for payment tthis morning (Thursday). Up to then I'd only had a quote, which didn't have VAT added, so I was waiting for an official invoice from them. I haven't got one - just an email requesting payment.

After getting a final figure from them, + the VAT, I attempted to pay via internet banking but the details seemed to be wrong. Checked with firm who said they were fine. Tried again, still wrong, so rang Nationwide - the guy there went through it step by step with me. Still wrong.

The bank advises strongly against paying in this situation, for obvious reasons.

Rang the removals guy. He insisted details were correct and told me to do it anyway - I declined. I offered to pay by Direct Debit, which according to their paperwork, they offer. He said he wasn't in the office again till Monday and that would be too late.

I offered to pay cash on the day, which their paperwork also says they take. He refused as it's "not secure".

I handed the phone to my husband who got the same response. He asked what we should do and was told to "get another removal firm".

So he said "OK" and rang off.

Presumably the guy was calling our bluff, thinking we'd have to do as he said. But we don't. We are still in possession of this property and can move on a date that suits us.

I'm in total shock, frankly. My questions to you are - was he being n any way reasonable? Do we still have any sort of contract if her refuses to take payment in a way their paperwork offers? To be exact, it says payment "by internet banking, BACS, debit card or cash. You may choose any of these options for payment". Payment is supposed to be by cleared funds on or before the removal date, but cash on the day would fulfil that requirement wouldn't it?

Advice please!

eddddy

nightsong said:

After getting a final figure from them, + the VAT, I attempted to pay via internet banking but the details seemed to be wrong. Checked with firm who said they were fine. Tried again, still wrong, so rang Nationwide - the guy there went through it step by step with me. Still wrong.

The bank advises strongly against paying in this situation, for obvious reasons.

For what obvious reasons? Why was the payment failing?

Was it an issue with "Confirmation of Payee" - i.e. the name on the quote didn't match the name on the bank account?

Any reputable business should be able to tell you how their name appears on their bank account for bank transfers.

Do you still want to use the company? If not, have you entered into a contract with them yet? If you have, they could potentially claim damages from you, if you cancel.

If you have entered into a contract, but you don't want to use them anymore, maybe you could email them saying something like "Further to your phone call, I am interpreting your comment to 'get another removal company' to mean that you are cancelling the contract. If you are not cancelling the contract, please contact me urgently to clarify what you mean."

eddddy

... also

How did you find the company? Are they reputable? Are they insured? Have you checked them out in any way?

Are they genuinely VAT registered?

And if the quote didn't mention VAT, the rule is that the amount is inclusive of VAT

nightsong

Many thanks, eddddy.

To answer your questions. I got an error message when I tried to pay via internet banking. The name of the payee and the bank details didn't match. According to the guy at Nationwide, it wasn't close, as then I'd have got a different message.

I found them online. They appear to be a reputable local company with a lot of positive feedback - I checked reviews. I did a tour of the house via phone with this guy and he seemed perfectly OK and professional.

The quote was "£xxx + VAT". There website clains they are VAT registered, and also that they are members of the local chamber of commerce.

I was expecting a proper invoice which included the VAT but what I received this morning was an email with their name and bank details. If he typed it out rather than using a pro forma he could easily have made a mistake, but he insists it's correct. I took a screenshot of what I input to the bank and he still said it was correct.

I signed the quote and returned it so I guess I have entered into a contract. But my question is, does that contract mean anything when a) he refuses to take payment via a method that his firm clearly offers, and b) he's told us to get another removals company?

The option he gave us was stark. Either pay via internet banking (I can force the payment through but Nationwide strongly advises against it, and if there is indeed a mistake and the money goes to the wrong account I'm unlikely to get it back) or go elsewhere. I'm sure he thought he had us over a barrel and we'd do as he said, but we have options he presumably hasn't even considered. Most people have to move on a given day - fortunately, we don't.

I don't want to use them now. I was pretty upset by his behaviour, frankly.

eddddy

nightsong said:

I can force the payment through but Nationwide strongly advises against it, and if there is indeed a mistake and the money goes to the wrong account I'm unlikely to get it back

I'm not saying you should force it through - but if the guy has really made a mistake and given you an incorrect sort code and/or account number, and the money goes into a 'random' person's bank account - you'd probably get it back.

It would be theft if the account owner refused to return it, and most 'random' people aren't criminals - so they'd probably return it without any fuss.



Nationwide would have been warning you that this may be a scam - for example

A scammer called "George Patterson" is pretending to be "John Smith" or pretending to be from "J S Removals" - and trying to persuade you to pay money into an account in the name of "George Patterson".



I think that the more likely explanation is that the Sort Code and Account Number is correct, but there's a Payee Name mismatch.

For example, the quote says "J S Removals", but the account name you're traying to pay into is something like:
- John Smith
- John Smith t/a J S Removals
- J S Transport

But as I say, any reputable company should be aware of that issue and warn you in advance.

nightsong said:

I signed the quote and returned it so I guess I have entered into a contract. But my question is, does that contract mean anything when a) he refuses to take payment via a method that his firm clearly offers, and b) he's told us to get another removals company?

I guess you can just refuse to pay and see if the guy decides to sue you in court. If he did, the court would look at the facts of the case.


- If the quote says you can pay by cash, but the company is now saying you can't - that sounds like breach of contract by the company.
- If the guy cancelled the contract in the phone call - then you no longer have a contract.


But as it stands, they have your signed acceptance as evidence of a contract - and you have no 'paper' evidence of their breach or cancellation. Which is why you should send an email confirming the situation - so that you have some evidence to support your case.

Noseybear38

Could you not just send a small amount and ask the company to check it has arrived before transferring the balance?

hazyjo

Or pay cash in their office rather than to the removal bods on the day?

Weathergirl_76

They want cleared funds before the move so cash would have to be upfront. If you’re still prepared to use them, this may be an option, assuming you can get the money to them. 

I can’t see how they could pursue for breach of contract, you have tried paying them using bank transfer which is not going through. If you force the payment through and it ends up in another account, how confident would you be getting the money back? 

Personally, if you are not tied to a specific day, I would look for another company to do it. I wouldn’t be giving them my business with that attitude. 

lookstraightahead

Find someone else, and if they try to pursue you got any 'breach of contract' let them.

ilikewatch2

It's not uncommon for a companies bank account to have a different name to the part of the business you're dealing with - earlier this week I kept getting the same error message when I was trying to make a payment to "XXX Container Storage" when I phoned them they told me that the bank account was in the name of their parent company "YYY Farms Ltd " - I used this name and the payment went through fine.

The person I spoke to didn't know that the mismatch in names could cause an issue - I guess most people who make payments to them aren't bothered and send payment anyway. I note that since I made them aware their invoices have already been updated to state the correct bank account name.

pinkteapot

Agree with everyone above - checking payee names is still a new-ish system and the removals company might not be used to it yet. They need to tell you exactly how their name appears on their account. They should understand that you don't want to risk transferring a large sum to the wrong person. While you should/will get it back, it's hassle you don't need at a stressful time. 

I would try phoning the guy again and saying that you need to know the name on their bank account, exactly as it appears. If he can't/won't answer that, I'd start ringing round other removers and seeing if anyone has late availability. They sometimes do, as completion dates change all the time. 

You're in a good position as you don't HAVE to move on that day. 

He's going to have the same problem with other customers now names on accounts are being checked. 

p.s. They might say they're VAT registered... Did the website show a VAT registration number? Just curious.