Landlord here. Can I charge for my time doing maintenance?

cathyrich

I did loads of painting/decorating and garden work on a property I rent out between tenants last summer. I also paid my 14 year old to help me and frankly,  I wouldn't have got it turned around in time without her help. I usually use a tradesperson but couldn't find one would could do it in the timeframe I needed. I do have quotes from them of over £2,000 for the work though. Can I charge for my time and the money I paid my daughter on my tax return as an allowance expense as I could if a tradesperson had done the work?

AdrianC

If you want to try to argue that you were paying your 14yo daughter, have you considered the laws about employing child labour...?

You are paying yourself, through higher profits.

And don't forget, you're going to be paying more-or-less the same tax at the end of the year, because if you deduct it as an expense against the lettings business, you need to account for the income to your self-employed handyman business, right...?

Would you get away with putting it through and then not declaring it? Probably.

user1977

Ah, to be very cunning surely you pay each of your children a salary for their property maintenance services up to the level of their personal allowances...

K_S

cathyrich said:

I did loads of painting/decorating and garden work on a property I rent out between tenants last summer. I also paid my 14 year old to help me and frankly,  I wouldn't have got it turned around in time without her help. I usually use a tradesperson but couldn't find one would could do it in the timeframe I needed. I do have quotes from them of over £2,000 for the work though. Can I charge for my time and the money I paid my daughter on my tax return as an allowance expense as I could if a tradesperson had done the work?

@cathyrich Afaik, a landlord can't charge themselves for their own labour/time, but you could (in theory) charge a business that you own. However, the company would subject to taxes, etc so this would only make sense if you were carrying out (or expect to carry out) a substantial amount of labour on your properties.

Setting aside the specific case of your 14-year old, landlords can pay their spouse/friends/family for working in their rental business as long as what you pay represents a commercial reward for the work done. Of course there may be tax implications for them as well.

sheramber

if you pay yourself by deducting from your business income you will need to pay tax on that income.

Painting and decorating and garden work  for a 14 year old may not be allowed, Check the Child Employment laws and your councils list of unsuitable jobs.

Most likely what you gave her was  'pocket money' for helping out. 

Jumblebumble

sheramber said:

if you pay yourself by deducting from your business income you will need to pay tax on that income.

Painting and decorating and garden work  for a 14 year old may not be allowed, Check the Child Employment laws and your councils list of unsuitable jobs.

Most likely what you gave her was  'pocket money' for helping out. 

Hmm
I cannot see what connection there is between whether HMRC allow the work to be paid and claimed against tax  and whether the council allow the daughter to work.
Do you think that  HMRC would take the view  that because tissue begging is against TFLs bylaws and therefore illegal they would not collect income tax if they could get hold of it ?

theartfullodger

user1977 said:

Ah, to be very cunning surely you pay each of your children a salary for their property maintenance services up to the level of their personal allowances...

Indeed....

Grumpy_chap

user1977 said:

Ah, to be very cunning surely you pay each of your children a salary for their property maintenance services up to the level of their personal allowances...

If you were to do this, the money would actually have to be paid to the children and then become theirs to do with as they see fit.  Once paid out for services, the money ceases to be in the control of the LL - the same as paying a plumber.

If it is not like this, it would be fraud.

There would also be a need for the rate paid to the children to be at fair market rate for the services provided.

Plus the comments from others about child labour.

user1977

Grumpy_chap said:

user1977 said:

Ah, to be very cunning surely you pay each of your children a salary for their property maintenance services up to the level of their personal allowances...

There would also be a need for the rate paid to the children to be at fair market rate for the services provided.

"Some may be surprised at the rate my 8 year old charges, but they're one of the most sought-after chimney sweeps in the neighbourhood..."

cathyrich

Thank you everyone. 

sheramber

Jumblebumble said:

sheramber said:

if you pay yourself by deducting from your business income you will need to pay tax on that income.

Painting and decorating and garden work  for a 14 year old may not be allowed, Check the Child Employment laws and your councils list of unsuitable jobs.

Most likely what you gave her was  'pocket money' for helping out. 

Hmm
I cannot see what connection there is between whether HMRC allow the work to be paid and claimed against tax  and whether the council allow the daughter to work.
Do you think that  HMRC would take the view  that because tissue begging is against TFLs bylaws and therefore illegal they would not collect income tax if they could get hold of it ?

Neither can I. I did not make any connection hence a new paragraph.