Dual Fuel - very large payments query

AlkieDropout

rp1974 said:

Hence the very large payments?,the mystery is thus explained.

Clearly not read the issue / question..

I had the hottub last year and still gave Avro £600 more over the year than I needed to. Yet they still only dropped my bills by £7pm or £84 over the year, If I take their estimated usage, their estimate costs and work out the bills it comes to £130 not the renewal value of £152 so I'm wondering why the £22pm difference.

i.e. is there another factor outside of
- Usage
- Standing Charge
- VAT @ 5%

if it's just those three then their £152 renewal should only be £130 plus a little extra "safety net" ... that is my confusion as their figures don't add up.

AlkieDropout

just to be clear, £130 is the calculation for next year, using next year's estimate usage and next years rates not last year.

[Deleted User]

AlkieDropout said:

i.e. is there another factor outside of
- Usage
- Standing Charge
- VAT @ 5%

When you say usage do you mean kWhs/year or unit price (p/kWh)? 

rp1974

Was otherwise engaged during editing,posted before finishing.
Anyway you may choose to read the edit,or not.

AlkieDropout

the unit price 

i.e.
next year they say i'll use 7100kW electric
Next year that's £0.127 per unit

Electricity = £0.127 => 7100 * £0.127 = £901.70

Standing Charges = £6.07 * 12 = £72.84 (19.95p * 365 / 12) 

VAT on £901.70 = £45.05

Total Electricity = £901.70 + £72.84 + £45.05 = £1019.59

Using the same principle for Gas is

Total Gas = £426.01 + £72.84 + £21.30 = £520.15

This gives me £1019.59 + £520.15 = £1539.74 for the year or £128.32pm

I don't get why I'm short and not getting £152 (or even close-ish). If I'm right I can then use the same calculation on the actual figures to get a proper monthly payment sent to Avro based on my actual usage.
If my calculation is wrong i need to get it right (somehow) so i can apply that to last years true meter readings and get a better monthly payment.

AlkieDropout

rp1974 said:

Hence the very large payments?,the mystery is thus explained.
Unless using actual and not estimated figures all your doing is going round in circles in the hope of achieving what?.
Unsure if Avro bill in advance or in arrears,any more than one month's payment credit balance is too much, suggest you start a complaint which can go to the Ombudsman as the need arises.

Thanks for the update.
I'm just making sure everything I do is mathematically sound. Once I know how they got to £152, which think will just be down to a "safety net overpayment" that they'll never drop. I'll use the same calculations on the actual usage later if I know at least that part is not wrong.

Once all that is in my head i'll then go to the ombudsman with my findings as something is wrong, which could still be me in which case i won't 

i.e.
Same Usage figures
Avro = £152 quote
Next Best = £170 / £171 or something like that  (with higher p/KW so expected)
So what ever is causing the miscalculation is either me missing something or is industry-wide.

niktheguru

Don't really understand the point in how you are doing your calculations.
You will save time by working out your actual consumption for the last year, then using those figures to work out how much you owe over a year using the unit rate and standing charge, then going to avro with the evidence and telling them what direct debit payments you should be paying. At the moment all you're doing is using a bad estimate to work out a worse estimate than the previous bad estimates. (Unless avro have upped their game and provided an accurate estimate.....so either they are making errors or you're making errors)

[Deleted User]

Like a number of other posters, I never use annual estimates or DD quotes provided by suppliers. I look at two actual readings about 12 months apart and do my own calculations based on these figures using a price comparison website such as Citizens Advice. What matters is not what I paid last year but what I am going to pay for 12 months on the new tariff.  That said, I also use a simple App - Meters - which gives me an up to date indication of my energy use and cost.

If you use a supplier’s website for unit prices and standing charges then more often than not these are exclusive of VAT. Prices quoted on price comparison websites usually include VAT. 

Robin9

Dare I suggest that Avro just plucked a figure out of thin air so that the higher the credit balance helps their cash flow.

I think you are looking for logic that isn't there.

AlkieDropout

Robin9 said:

Dare I suggest that Avro just plucked a figure out of thin air so that the higher the credit balance helps their cash flow.

I think you are looking for logic that isn't there.

This is probably the case in reflection, it's less than they charged me last year so assumed i'd just accept it and be happy building up another massive credit.

I sent them the calculations saying it doesn't add up and they replied with the generic "based on your estimated usage this is what you need to pay or we can keep the credit and charge you £130pm)

At least i can (hopefully) get a nice £400 bonus when i ask for it ... when the send it to me is another matter however the previous £224 was done pretty quickly.