Dual Fuel - very large payments query

AlkieDropout

Hello,
I'm posting this here in case I've missed something really obvious so I hope you can help.
We're coming to the end of our current contract with Avro who were taking just under £160 per month from us. After 11 months of the 12 month contract we're currently £350 in credit and this is after already receiving a £224 credit in march so in 12 months I'm expecting a total overpayment of over £600.

OK, their renewal for next year is £152 .. only £7 less?!?!? or £84 less for the year.
If I use various compare sites Avro is well under with other companies in the £170+ bracket. I don't get where these high figures are coming from. It also forced me to stray with Avro as they are still far cheaper.

I took the time to calculate next years usage bills; -
Note: the usage figures of 7100 and 19364 are supplied by Avro as their "next year" estimates.

Electricity = £0.127 => 7100 * £0.127 = £901.70

Standing Charges = £6.07 * 12 = £72.84 (assumed 19.95p * 365 / 12) 

VAT on £901.70 = £45.05

Total Electricity = £901.70 + £72.84 + £45.05 = £1019.59

Gas = £0.022 => 19364 * £0.022 = £426.01

Standing Charges = £6.07 * 12 = £72.84 (assumed 19.95p * 365 / 12) 

VAT on £426.01 = £21.30

Total Gas = £426.01 + £72.84 + £21.30 = £520.15

Total Cost = £1019.59 + £520.15 =  £1539.74

pm cost = £1327.71 / 12 = £128.32 (rounded up)

How does £130 go to £152 as that is a £264 overpayment per year

Please help me understand or is this general money grabbage by (i'm guessing) all the energy suppliers

AlkieDropout

Sorry, slight typo
pm cost = £1539.74 / 12 = £128.32 (rounded up)

tacpot12

Energy prices have gone up quite a bit recently. No-one I know has managed to reduce their energy cost when switching supplier this year. (I've had chats with a couple of people about  it as I found the same thing.)
You need to compare who will be the cheapest suppier for the next 12 months  or so, and if this is Avro you might as well stick with them. You can ask, and pretty much insist, that they reduce the DD amount if you are £600 in credit.

niktheguru

We are assuming here that you have been providing regular meter readings, or have a smart meter that is working.
Don't use avros "estimates" for next year. Just use a years worth of REAL readings to calculate your usage. Get a meter reading from an old bill from last june, and a meter reading from now and the difference will be your annual usage. (obviously if you've been working from home it will be probably artificially high, but so will their estimate.)
Then do the sums and it will be more realistic.

AlkieDropout

Thanks for the replies. The sums above are worked out using their estimates for next year (as they'd be higher than this years correct usage) which they say is the reason it's down from £159.92 to £152 but I can only get it to add up to £130 so I assume I've missed something. All the rates etc are taken from my account page on Avro for the next 12 months so I also know they are correct. Note: using the same usage estimate on the last years rates only put me £400 in credit so they're clearly higher.

I'd expect them to over charge "to be safe" but £264 over a year and still be £20pm cheaper than then next best supplier is baffling however means I need to stay with Avro for another 12 months and accept i'm going to build up another huge credit. They say they review ever 1/4 but they never adjusted it last year, even after the £224 credit in march, 

They did say they'd keep my credit but drop my monthly to £130pm but I'd rather have the credit back. £400+ is quite a few beer/gin tokens.

niktheguru

AlkieDropout said:

Thanks for the replies. The sums above are worked out using their estimates for next year (as they'd be higher than this years correct usage) which they say is the reason it's down from £159.92 to £152 but I can only get it to add up to £130 so I assume I've missed something. All the rates etc are taken from my account page on Avro for the next 12 months so I also know they are correct. Note: using the same usage estimate on the last years rates only put me £400 in credit so they're clearly higher.

I'd expect them to over charge "to be safe" but £264 over a year and still be £20pm cheaper than then next best supplier is baffling however means I need to stay with Avro for another 12 months and accept i'm going to build up another huge credit. They say they review ever 1/4 but they never adjusted it last year, even after the £224 credit in march, 

They did say they'd keep my credit but drop my monthly to £130pm but I'd rather have the credit back. £400+ is quite a few beer/gin tokens.

You're not making sense to me. Why are you using an estimate for next year using figures that are bigger than this year.....if you've already been overpaying and built a massive credit. It just doesn't make any sense.
For the majority of people, you are more likely to use LESS energy in the next 12 months than in the previous, due to potentially no lockdown or working from home.
Using last years "estimates" your usage was less than your actual payments, so to work out ACCURATE payments you need to use the ACTUAL meter readings for the last year. If you then do your sums you will get a REALISTIC monthly amount you should be paying by direct debit, to avoid getting in so much credit in the future. 

Again, are you using a smart meter or are you submitting regular meter readings to avro?

As others have said, the prices for energy have gone up quite a bit compared to last year, so don't expect to pay less, however avro may still be one of the cheaper suppliers for you compared to the competition, BUT you've gotta get your usage figures more accurate otherwise you're just going to be throwing free money at them again for another year. I would suggest being in credit over £500 over a 12 month period implies you are overpaying by around £40 each month. Theres no need for that!

Robin9

@AlkieDropout  Is your electricity consumption really that high at 7100 kWh - that's double the average. Read your meter today and compare it with an actual reading of about 12 months ago.

PS And why are you taking dual fuel - separate suppliers could well be overall cheaper.

AlkieDropout

niktheguru said:

You're not making sense to me. Why are you using an estimate for next year using figures that are bigger than this year.....if you've already been overpaying and built a massive credit. 

Thanks for the reply.
The reason is I've not even got as far as using actual usage yet, at the moment I'm trying to see where they pulled the £152 from. According to the Avro guy, it is £152pm next year this is because my estimated usage is 7100 (elect) and 19364 (gas). So i took these values and worked out the bill I got to £130pm which I also know it too high but not £152.
i.e
7100 @ £0.122
19364 @ £0.022
Standing charges at just under 20p per day and VAT at 5%

Once I know my calculations are correct i'll then use the actual readings from last year confident i've not missed anything. 
i.e. at the moment I'm trying to see why I'm not getting £152 using the Avro rates and usage.

niktheguru said:

Again, are you using a smart meter or are you submitting regular meter readings to avro?

.I have a smart meter but avro are not smart enough to read it automatically so I'm meter reading again.

niktheguru said:

As others have said, the prices for energy have gone up quite a bit compared to last year, so don't expect to pay less, however avro may still be one of the cheaper suppliers for you compared to the competition, BUT you've gotta get your usage figures more accurate otherwise you're just going to be throwing free money at them again for another year. I would suggest being in credit over £500 over a 12 month period implies you are overpaying by around £40 each month.
Theres no need for that!

Yes, I know the base rates have gone up but not enough to practically remove all £600 overspend.
i.e.
Elec => 12.1p to 12.2p
Gas = > 2.1p to 2.2p

Robin9 said:

@AlkieDropout  Is your electricity consumption really that high at 7100 kWh - that's double the average. Read your meter today and compare it with an actual reading of about 12 months ago.

PS And why are you taking dual fuel - separate suppliers could well be overall cheaper.

The reason is largly because we have a hot tub which does chomp through the old electric even though we turn it off for periods especially over the colder months

Gerry1

AlkieDropout said:

The reason is largely because we have a hot tub which does chomp through the old electric even though we turn it off for periods especially over the colder months.

Why are you choosing to heat it with electricity at 12.2p/kWh when you have gas at 2.2p/kWh? 

AlkieDropout

Gerry1 said:

AlkieDropout said:

The reason is largely because we have a hot tub which does chomp through the old electric even though we turn it off for periods especially over the colder months.

Why are you choosing to heat it with electricity at 12.2p/kWh when you have gas at 2.2p/kWh? 

When I change the water I use hot to fill it but if the water doesn't need changing I just use the electric.

rp1974

Hence the very large payments?,the mystery is thus explained.
Unless using actual and not estimated figures all your doing is going round in circles in the hope of achieving what?.
Unsure if Avro bill in advance or in arrears,any more than one month's payment credit balance is too much, suggest you start a complaint which can go to the Ombudsman as the need arises.