NCP & BW Legal - Letter of Claim

ProblemForMe23

Good Morning All,

I have received a letter of claim from BW Legal, I am not sure if I had received any other letters before this. As I am between properties! Is there anyway PPC or solicitors can prove I received previous correspondence? As I would have appealed to PPC, then POPLA. 

The car park in question, ticket machine was down and the driver believed they had paid via NCP payment app. The driver has gone back through bank records and seen no payment went through. The driver at the time has a record of them downloading the application on date of contravention and also has records from the App Store of the version updates stating bug fixes (reduce app crashing) after this date etc.

I have sent a SAR to PPC and asked for solicitors to put on hold the case. I have also sent a SAR to DVLA. 

The date of the contravention 04/11/20 and letter of claim dated 25/05/21.

Is there anything else I can do and how strong would be my case in court? I am trying to find out the landowner via the registry but they’ve sent me corrupted files so can’t open them! 

If there’s any help you can suggest, please let me know. 

Redx

The parking company obtains registered keeper details using a Kadoe contract to read the DVLA database , then posts the PCN to that address , even if it's no longer correct. The keeper has a legal obligation to update the DVLA database whenever they move etc

So parking companies and solicitors have no need to prove delivery , only that they followed the above process. No proof of receipt is required

If NCP complied with POFA then you as keeper can be deemed liable , you never mentioned this

POFA compliance is required to hold a non driving keeper liable , otherwise a keeper who was not the driver cannot be deemed to be liable

If NCP have a lease or valid landowner contract (authority) , which they usually do , then they can issue PCN s and court claims

If you were not the driver , then think about naming them before a court claim is started ( too late afterwards )

Not enough details to know the answer to your question , we have no idea what the chances are in Court , too many variables , it's a lottery , where judge bingo doesn't help either

Le_Kirk

They (PPC or the solicitors) will not put a case on hold because you have submitted a SAR; you have to state that "whilst you deny any debt, you are seeking debt advice and require the issue to be put on hold for no less than 30 days in line with the pre-action protocol for debt claims".  What you should do is issue a Data Rectification Notice to the DPO of the PPC advising them of your address for service and requiring them to ERASE your old data and to inform all their agents and sub-contractors of the same.  You don't want them sending court claim papers to the old address deliberately so they receive a judgment in default against you.

ProblemForMe23

Redx said:

The parking company obtains registered keeper details using a Kadoe contract to read the DVLA database , then posts the PCN to that address , even if it's no longer correct. The keeper has a legal obligation to update the DVLA database whenever they move etc

So parking companies and solicitors have no need to prove delivery , only that they followed the above process. No proof of receipt is required

If NCP complied with POFA then you as keeper can be deemed liable , you never mentioned this

POFA compliance is required to hold a non driving keeper liable , otherwise a keeper who was not the driver cannot be deemed to be liable

If NCP have a lease or valid landowner contract (authority) , which they usually do , then they can issue PCN s and court claims

If you were not the driver , then think about naming them before a court claim is started ( too late afterwards )

Not enough details to know the answer to your question , we have no idea what the chances are in Court , too many variables , it's a lottery , where judge bingo doesn't help either

Okay that clears that up then, I still live at the address where it was sent I just don’t seem to have any NTK etc. 

I will just contact the landowner on the off chance they will stop any legal action if I explain the situation.

Worst case scenario, I will just settle before court as I haven’t got the time to be dealing with all of the documents etc. 

Thank you.

ProblemForMe23

Le_Kirk said:

They (PPC or the solicitors) will not put a case on hold because you have submitted a SAR; you have to state that "whilst you deny any debt, you are seeking debt advice and require the issue to be put on hold for no less than 30 days in line with the pre-action protocol for debt claims".  What you should do is issue a Data Rectification Notice to the DPO of the PPC advising them of your address for service and requiring them to ERASE your old data and to inform all their agents and sub-contractors of the same.  You don't want them sending court claim papers to the old address deliberately so they receive a judgment in default against you.

Apologies if I was not clear/succinct, I stated what you said above on the newbies #2 post. 

I still live at the address but I live between two addresses so sometimes I will go through mail at a delay. I will ensure now no letters are missed.

I am thinking of settling before court anyways as they’ve offered a quite easily paid plan, as I am not sure I have a good enough case; That the driver downloaded the app but it clearly was not fit for purpose and didn’t put through the payment/ payment machine was out of order. 

It does seem like a huge cost for a 20 min non payment. 

Umkomaas

Worst case scenario, I will just settle before court as I haven’t got the time to be dealing with all of the documents etc. 

Exactly what they're hoping you will do. Very few of them will pursue a single ticket right through to a hearing, largely because it will cost them more than they can hope to recover. 

They are using the threat of court as a further debt collection lever. Unfortunately, they have almost everything they need on a computer-driven conveyor belt, while the motorist has to do some work just to keep pace. Much of the stuff you need is here on the forum, be it in template form, or examples of other posters' work that is seen as highly useful, just needs adjusting and assembling to match your particular parking event. 

While you're here, I just wonder whether you wouldn't mind having a read about the disturbing case of an elderly lady, emotionally battered, bruised and shaken at the hands of a PPC in the small claims court. 

We ask for nothing for our voluntary work here in helping for free. But, just for a short while, can we ask you please to go to this link and read there Lyn Reeves' (@Coupon-Mad here) account of a very disturbing case involving a private parking ticket that has turned very nasty. If you can help in even the smallest way, that would be so much appreciated.  If you're able to spread the message via social media, that too would be wonderful.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/much-ado-about-nothing-urgent-help-for-norma?utm_campaign=p_cp_url&utm_medium=os&utm_source=customer

beamerguy

And don't forget that BWLegal have added a fake amount of £60 to their claim

When you reply to the LBA, ask them for their legal authority to add this.

As your ticket is dated 2020, they will no doubt say that the code of practice allows them to.

This would be the normal nonsensical rubbish they spout.
The Code of practice has nothing to do with the motorist

If they reply with rubbish, it's perfect to show a judge and if they don't, you ask a judge for their legal authority

BWLegal keep failing to understand what the Supreme court ruled
"The main reason for the charge was to meet the costs of enforcing the parking rules"
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6265050/beavis-insight-motorway-services-insight-and-claims-lost-in-court

Fruitcake

Check the details on your V5C. Don't guess, go and look and make sure the address is correct, because that is where the NTK will have been sent.

Nobody here will ever suggest you pay a scammer, especially if they have added on fake amounts. A loss in court will cost about the same amount as they are claiming in total because the fake add ons will get knocked off and replaced by permitted court fees.

Paying them will fund them so they can scam more victims. Our MPs across all parties have referred to these companies as rogues, bloodsuckers, and scammers.

Redx

ProblemForMe23 said:

Le_Kirk said:

They (PPC or the solicitors) will not put a case on hold because you have submitted a SAR; you have to state that "whilst you deny any debt, you are seeking debt advice and require the issue to be put on hold for no less than 30 days in line with the pre-action protocol for debt claims".  What you should do is issue a Data Rectification Notice to the DPO of the PPC advising them of your address for service and requiring them to ERASE your old data and to inform all their agents and sub-contractors of the same.  You don't want them sending court claim papers to the old address deliberately so they receive a judgment in default against you.

Apologies if I was not clear/succinct, I stated what you said above on the newbies #2 post. 

I still live at the address but I live between two addresses so sometimes I will go through mail at a delay. I will ensure now no letters are missed.

I am thinking of settling before court anyways as they’ve offered a quite easily paid plan, as I am not sure I have a good enough case; That the driver downloaded the app but it clearly was not fit for purpose and didn’t put through the payment/ payment machine was out of order. 

It does seem like a huge cost for a 20 min non payment. 

Faulty machines and apps are frustration of contract , not the fault of the consumer , so is your best defence the CRA 2015 assists

The difference between an actual payment of say 20p and a £100 default daily tariff isn't an argument since the Beavis case 6 years ago. Not paying your £5 tram fare on Manchester Metrolink results in a £100 penalty notice too.

It can be eye watering how small infringements can mushroom into large sums

ProblemForMe23

Hi all,

An update, I am contact (complaining) with landowner and I have only go through to a lowly employee at the moment (with the prospect of pushing further up the chain). 

The employee has stated the landowner has no part in the process between NCP and its business. Essentially stated, whatever dispute I have is with myself and the PPC. 

I am trying to understand the landowner authority and if I can push them harder to ask the PPC to stop all proceedings? I was also wondering how this would pan out if this goes to court. 

There’s also a ‘right of way’ easement in the leasehold if that means anything?

Coupon-mad

There’s also a ‘right of way’ easement in the leasehold if that means anything?

Yes, a RoW easement can sometimes be reasonably interpreted to include parking.  There is case law about that but it depends what part of the property this R0W is talking about and whether it is talking about car spaces and driveways/common land, or whether it's talking about a right of way on foot to reach your flat door.