Surveyor sent the Homebuyers Report to the Vendors

verytired11

AdrianC said:

verytired11 said:

AdrianC said:

verytired11 said:

I feel that this is a serious mistake - it's a data breach and it potentially jeopardised your purchase and/or negotiating position.  I would find out what the surveyor's complaint procedure is and make a complaint through that.  I don't think you will be able to prove that the mistake cost you the purchase, but irrespective of that your complaint should be taken seriously and addressed.  I would be furious about it.

"A data breach"? In what way? There's none of the buyer's personally identifying information being disclosed that the vendor won't have already had from the memorandum of sale. Less, in fact.

It won't have jeopardised the negotiating position, either. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that any renegotiation based on claims of what the survey says would be backed up by sight of the survey.

The data breach is that the OP has commissioned a report for their eyes only.

The report is the property of the surveyors.

If you pay for a professional to advise you, you don't expect that advice to be shown to anybody else.

But what is the actual loss? Zero.

Oh, noes! The vendor now knows there's nothing wrong with the house they're selling!

I completely disagree with your second point.  If you are in a negotiation with someone you don't want your own position openly being sent to the other side.

If you are buying a house from me, and say "My survey says X is wrong, can we reduce the price by £Y?", I would suggest you are somewhat over-optimistic if you think my response is going to be "Oooh, heck! Well, yes, of course" without being shown the survey...

But since the survey showed no issues for the OP to renegotiate over, it's moot... unless, of course, you are suggesting that the OP was planning on misrepresenting it completely to claim issues that were not shown, and now cannot...?

You also seem to have forgotten that GDPR only protects personally identifying information. Commercially sensitive information is not directly protected.

The report is not the property of the surveyor.  That's not how professional advice works.  The report is commissioned for and paid for by the buyer and a professional relationship arises between the two of them that brings obligations on the part of the surveyor to the buyer and gives the buyer certain rights that they can expect to be upheld.  In terms of loss,  I can think of at least one potential loss.  The buyer asks for £5000 off in respect of hidden work identified by the report.  The buyer sends an extract of the report to the seller to back up the request.  The seller sends the extract of the report to the buyer showing that the buyer has got the property £5k cheaper than the valuation and asks for an extra £5k instead.  That's not to say that the buyer would have got a reduction without the seller having that useful piece of information; however, what he has potentially lost is some bargaining power.  Anyway, that is just a minor point.  The real issue is that when a mistake is made, in my view, three things should happen.  The first is that the mistake is acknowledged.  The second is that it is investigated to find out how it happened to stop the same mistake from happening again.  The third is that repair is made.  In this case, repair may only extend to an apology and acknowledgment of the inconvenience caused to the buyer.  We don't know if the survey impacted the falling through of the sale.  However, if someone makes a mistake that affects me and then either doesn't acknowledge it or says that I shouldn't worry about it because it didn't cause me any harm, I assume that this person is not taking responsibility for their actions, and in a professional situation this is problematic and has consequences.  In a personal situation one can walk away and remind oneself not to have any dealings with that person again.  

eddddy

user1977 said:

eddddy said:

But I guess if the sellers were already getting cold feet for other reasons, the thought that they were also underselling by £5k might have been a tipping point.

What's more likely in that case - (a) flounce off without any warning, remarket, and take the risk that they don't get any better a price from other buyers, or (b) simply ask the OP to up the price by £5k?

No, neither of those  - 'by getting cold feet', I was meaning that they were going off the idea of selling, perhaps for a long list of reasons. And underselling by £5k was another reason to add to the list - i.e the tipping point.  So no plans to remarket.

But as my post suggests - it's more of a suggestion of a remote possibility, rather than something that's likely.

AdrianC

verytired11 said:

AdrianC said:

verytired11 said:

The data breach is that the OP has commissioned a report for their eyes only.

The report is the property of the surveyors.

If you pay for a professional to advise you, you don't expect that advice to be shown to anybody else.

But what is the actual loss? Zero.

Oh, noes! The vendor now knows there's nothing wrong with the house they're selling!

The report is not the property of the surveyor.  That's not how professional advice works. The report is commissioned for and paid for by the buyer and a professional relationship arises between the two of them that brings obligations on the part of the surveyor to the buyer and gives the buyer certain rights that they can expect to be upheld.

You're close.

There is indeed a professional relationship, in which the surveyor grants a licence to use their intellectual property - the report. That licence specifically excludes others relying on it, not least for professional liability insurance purposes. The intellectual property is not transferred. The report is still the surveyor's property.

In terms of loss,  I can think of at least one potential loss.  The buyer asks for £5000 off in respect of hidden work identified by the report.  The buyer sends an extract of the report to the seller to back up the request.  The seller sends the extract of the report to the buyer showing that the buyer has got the property £5k cheaper than the valuation and asks for an extra £5k instead.

Or, even, refuses to accept a revaluation on the basis that the property has not been downvalued at all.

Yes, that's the way negotiations work.
And if you think handing me selected extracts would work, you're still wrong. You want to rely on the survey to renegotiate, provide the survey. All of it. Especially any valuation, or we are not getting very far in our renegotiation...

But, since this particular survey did not identify any defects...

The real issue is that when a mistake is made, in my view, three things should happen.  The first is that the mistake is acknowledged.

Read the OP. Already done, and apology issued.

The second is that it is investigated to find out how it happened to stop the same mistake from happening again.

Internal procedures, not the OP's problem or business.

The third is that repair is made.  In this case, repair may only extend to an apology and acknowledgment of the inconvenience caused to the buyer.

Read the OP. Already done.

In a personal situation one can walk away and remind oneself not to have any dealings with that person again.

And such would, of course, be entirely the OP's prerogative.

verytired11

@AdrianC There are at least 3 different types of relationship created with the issuing of the report.  Intellectual property is a red herring.  There is a contractual relationship, a duty of care relationship, and a regulatory relationship.  The surveyor has breached terms of all three relationships.  How this has happened is absolutely the concern of the OP as he is the one who has been potentially detrimented.  You seem to be muddling up reality with evidence.  We don't actually know whether the misdirected report did or did not contribute to the sale falling through. Only the seller will know that.  We also don't know whether the seller would or would not have negotiated on price.  You seem to be conflating what you would do with what the seller would do.   So whilst it is true that it will be very hard to prove that any loss was caused, that doesn't mean that there wasn't any loss nor that the OP shouldn't be annoyed about it or ask for it to be investigated.  

[Deleted User]

verytired11 said:

@AdrianC There are at least 3 different types of relationship created with the issuing of the report.  Intellectual property is a red herring.  There is a contractual relationship, a duty of care relationship, and a regulatory relationship.  The surveyor has breached terms of all three relationships.  How this has happened is absolutely the concern of the OP as he is the one who has been potentially detrimented.  You seem to be muddling up reality with evidence.  We don't actually know whether the misdirected report did or did not contribute to the sale falling through. Only the seller will know that.  We also don't know whether the seller would or would not have negotiated on price.  You seem to be conflating what you would do with what the seller would do.   So whilst it is true that it will be very hard to prove that any loss was caused, that doesn't mean that there wasn't any loss nor that the OP shouldn't be annoyed about it or ask for it to be investigated.  

It has happened because somebody has accidentally posted it to the property address, no?
WIll it happen again? It wil happen as often as someone makes an administrative error, an error being an error.
I'm really not clear on where this discussion is going.

lucypilates

I had a poor surveyor experience too .... i chose an independent surveyor who was semi-retired and doing the odd survey rather than full time working.

His response to emails and phone calls was apalling. He blamed his internet though he received my emails okay - just couldn't seem to send me a response until I chased him up (then he could!!)

He said he was waiting for response from agents to his request for access. I spoke to agents, who said they'd responded ... I told him they'd responded, I guess he checked his emails again and lo and behold, all was well. But I was annoyed it took my intervention!

Then he took over a week to send me the first report which was for an entirely different property. I rang and he sent me the correct one by email with a hard copy going in the post.

The hard copy never arrived. So i asked him about it and he said that it had gone to the wrong address and the recipient had called and said they'd drop it round on foot as I was just around the corner ... again, it never arrived!! They're still walking round as far as I know ...

I specifically asked him for a few areas I'd spotted that I wanted him to specifically inspect and give me his opinion. He missed most of them out so when I raised this, he suggested he go back and revisit.

He revisited and still missed two of the specifics ...

At this point, I told him that I wasn't feeling the 'peace of mind' that a survey should bring ... he suggested he ripped up his invoice which I accepted.

I never got another surveyor in due to various reasons and now I'm in - there are a catalogue of issues, some of which I would've expected him to pick up on but hey ho! 

Good luck with your complaint and I do think it's worth bringing these things to their attention, otherwise, how will they improve their service?

lookstraightahead

I hope that those who works have the surveyor/administrator sacked never make a mistake with an address / an email etc. They're happy for people to lose their jobs over this mistake it seems.

lookstraightahead

lucypilates said:

I had a poor surveyor experience too .... i chose an independent surveyor who was semi-retired and doing the odd survey rather than full time working.

His response to emails and phone calls was apalling. He blamed his internet though he received my emails okay - just couldn't seem to send me a response until I chased him up (then he could!!)

He said he was waiting for response from agents to his request for access. I spoke to agents, who said they'd responded ... I told him they'd responded, I guess he checked his emails again and lo and behold, all was well. But I was annoyed it took my intervention!

Then he took over a week to send me the first report which was for an entirely different property. I rang and he sent me the correct one by email with a hard copy going in the post.

The hard copy never arrived. So i asked him about it and he said that it had gone to the wrong address and the recipient had called and said they'd drop it round on foot as I was just around the corner ... again, it never arrived!! They're still walking round as far as I know ...

I specifically asked him for a few areas I'd spotted that I wanted him to specifically inspect and give me his opinion. He missed most of them out so when I raised this, he suggested he go back and revisit.

He revisited and still missed two of the specifics ...

At this point, I told him that I wasn't feeling the 'peace of mind' that a survey should bring ... he suggested he ripped up his invoice which I accepted.

I never got another surveyor in due to various reasons and now I'm in - there are a catalogue of issues, some of which I would've expected him to pick up on but hey ho! 

Good luck with your complaint and I do think it's worth bringing these things to their attention, otherwise, how will they improve their service?

I'm not sure peace of mind is what you get from a survey. I would say the opposite 😂

lookstraightahead

eddddy said:

It's pretty shocking that a professional advisor sends their professional advice, which is intended for their client, to 'the other party'.

It sounds like either a serious disciplinary matter - or a serious problem with their internal processes.

It's impossible to know if this contributed to the falling through of the sale - logic seems to suggest that a £5k difference in valuation wouldn't.  But I guess if the sellers were already getting cold feet for other reasons, the thought that they were also underselling by £5k might have been a tipping point.

What would you do if a postman posted something through the wrong letterbox? Or there was a typo on a letter to number 4 instead of number 3? What if you accidentally opened mail meant for someone else?

teachfast

lookstraightahead said:

I hope that those who works have the surveyor/administrator sacked never make a mistake with an address / an email etc. They're happy for people to lose their jobs over this mistake it seems.

Nobody in this whole thread suggested they would be sacked, let alone that they wanted that to happen. You completely made this up.