Possible to fix bad credit rating from Welsh Water, due to not getting invoice or reminders?

infocomo

I am looking for advice please, in regards to bad processes at Welsh Water. 

I purchased a buy to let November 2019, and requested Welsh Water email me the bill for the period November 1st 2019 to December 31st 2019 when it was unoccupied, before the tenant moved in. I did the same for all the other bills and council tax, and paid them promptly when received. 

I did not receive the bill from Welsh Water at that time. Instead, I received a reminder from them in the post 9 months later! I paid it promptly in September 2020, and thought the matter closed.

----

A few months ago I wanted to get a mortgage but my credit rating has dramatically dropped and I cannot. Turns out Welsh Water reported the 9 months of missed payment to the credit agencies. My file shows all these months as missed payments, during which I had no idea. 

I am dumbfounded they have done this without sending a reminder. Normally you would receive reminders to pay missed bills, but Welsh Water are not sending them (they admit this), and instead reporting it to the credit agencies, whilst their customers dont even know they have a bill to pay (if they miss the main first one). I am also dumbfounded because I have to use Welsh Water, there is no competition I can change to.

Welsh water state "a Default Notice can be sent at any time after an account has fallen at least three months in arrears.  In your case, the Default Notice wasn’t sent until 28th August 2020." -> unbelievable!! How can no one be legally obliged to warn me of any debts and default notices before reporting them? A simple reminder in the post 1 month after due to would have avoided all this. 

A theory is the initial bill went into my spam because they have since sent me records showing the email was sent by them. I save all my emails into my inbox, and nothing there. But my spam is auto-deleted by Yahoo after 30 days so I cant confirm it was in there. They do not track email openings so they cannot prove its unopened, but I cannot prove I did not receive it. So in their case I am guilty unless proven innocent which I cannot do. 

The water bill was only £70 something, and I have an untarnished credit rating, my financial status is very good, so I should not have a bad credit rating from this. 
I therefore think Welsh Waters process is terrible. I do not think I should be in this position due to not receiving their bill, all it would take is a reminder. I cannot even set postal bills in their system, its email only, and email is unreliable as I have seen by not getting the first bill. 

I have tried using the Consumer Council for Water but it seems they just pass messages back and forth and don't have authority to demand Welsh Walter do anything. 

Welsh Water have stated they consider the matter closed and wont reply any more. So I am wondering what my options are now, is seeking the advice of a solicitor my only option?

I dont think i could have done anything to avoid this situation seen as I did not get the bill, and so dont think I should be in this position. 

Thanks
 

ThisnotThat

infocomo said:

I am looking for advice please, in regards to bad processes at Welsh Water. 

I purchased a buy to let November 2019, and requested Welsh Water email me the bill for the period November 1st 2019 to December 31st 2019 when it was unoccupied, before the tenant moved in. I did the same for all the other bills and council tax, and paid them promptly when received. 

I did not receive the bill from Welsh Water at that time. Instead, I received a reminder from them in the post 9 months later! I paid it promptly in September 2020, and thought the matter closed.

----

A few months ago I wanted to get a mortgage but my credit rating has dramatically dropped and I cannot. Turns out Welsh Water reported the 9 months of missed payment to the credit agencies. My file shows all these months as missed payments, during which I had no idea. 

I am dumbfounded they have done this without sending a reminder. Normally you would receive reminders to pay missed bills, but Welsh Water are not sending them (they admit this), and instead reporting it to the credit agencies, whilst their customers dont even know they have a bill to pay (if they miss the main first one). I am also dumbfounded because I have to use Welsh Water, there is no competition I can change to.

Welsh water state "a Default Notice can be sent at any time after an account has fallen at least three months in arrears.  In your case, the Default Notice wasn’t sent until 28th August 2020." -> unbelievable!! How can no one be legally obliged to warn me of any debts and default notices before reporting them? A simple reminder in the post 1 month after due to would have avoided all this. 

A theory is the initial bill went into my spam because they have since sent me records showing the email was sent by them. I save all my emails into my inbox, and nothing there. But my spam is auto-deleted by Yahoo after 30 days so I cant confirm it was in there. They do not track email openings so they cannot prove its unopened, but I cannot prove I did not receive it. So in their case I am guilty unless proven innocent which I cannot do. 

The water bill was only £70 something, and I have an untarnished credit rating, my financial status is very good, so I should not have a bad credit rating from this. 
I therefore think Welsh Waters process is terrible. I do not think I should be in this position due to not receiving their bill, all it would take is a reminder. I cannot even set postal bills in their system, its email only, and email is unreliable as I have seen by not getting the first bill. 

I have tried using the Consumer Council for Water but it seems they just pass messages back and forth and don't have authority to demand Welsh Walter do anything. 

Welsh Water have stated they consider the matter closed and wont reply any more. So I am wondering what my options are now, is seeking the advice of a solicitor my only option?

I dont think i could have done anything to avoid this situation seen as I did not get the bill, and so dont think I should be in this position. 

Thanks
 

Email is very reliable, much more so than the postal system (although I'm not saying the postal system is terrible.)

If they're saying it was sent you're probably right that an overzealous spam filter threw it into your spam folder.  To be honest, you really should be keeping an eye on your spam folder too, I've had many legitimate emails get flagged as spam over the years.

Unfortunately, the issue is on your end, not theirs so you really don't have any argument for getting this removed.

infocomo

Doesn’t not sending a reminder out at all play any part? I find it unbelievable they can negatively affect credit ratings without a warning first.

infocomo

I run an email server and email is not as reliable as you make out. Things can and do go wrong other than going in your spam. Although not often it can happen. I’ve had customers on Microsoft 365 not get emails even though the sender logs showed it as sent. 

If postal and email could have issues then all the more reason they should send reminders. It’s also totally in their interest to send reminders. It would have been paid 8 months earlier if they did 

ThisnotThat

infocomo said:

I run an email server and email is not as reliable as you make out. Things can and do go wrong other than going in your spam. Although not often it can happen. I’ve had customers on Microsoft 365 not get emails even though the sender logs showed it as sent. 

If postal and email could have issues then all the more reason they should send reminders. It’s also totally in their interest to send reminders. It would have been paid 8 months earlier if they did 

You don't know that they didn't send reminders.  They could have ended up in your spam folder too.

I can't see this is being any different to the guidance under the rules of civil procedures, if a letter is sent by Royal Mail then it is deemed to have been received after a few days regardless of whether it has.  I don't see that really being any different for an email.

You were expecting a bill and never queried the non-receipt, you didn't check your spam folder even though you should have.

They haven't erred here, you have and I don't see what engaging a solicitor will help.

infocomo

Yes I do they told me they didn’t. They said they send a reminder out anytime after 3 months. In this case it was almost 9 months. I paid it as soon as I got the reminder.

elsien

You asked for a bill then waited 9 months without following it up. I’d say there’s more than one party who needs to take some responsibility here. 

infocomo

I assumed welsh water would have good processes in place. I honestly don’t know anyone who puts every utility billing date in their calendar and sets reminders to chase up after 2 weeks. Do you do that? Can you honestly say that for every bill/direct debit you have you have a reminder to chase up if not received/collected after a few weeks? I’m going to bet you don’t. And if you do, I’ll say your 0.000001% or less who do. 

Honestly, to make that statement that I should chase it up is ridiculous. Tell me who does that??? Do you do that? Do you really know if one of your utility companies don’t collect a payment or send an invoice you’re on the phone the following week chasing it? 

I’m sorry but it’s ridiculous to say it’s my responsibility to chase invoices for all utilities and any service sent to me. I don’t even know if I have debt with them until they send me a bill. 

jpsartre

Can't speak for everyone but I would (and have) chased up on bills in the past. Most recently a plumbers bill that I was told would be sent straight away and that I still hadn't received after a month. Turns out it had been sent to my email and ended up in the spam filter.

infocomo

jpsartre said:

Can't speak for everyone but I would (and have) chased up on bills in the past. Most recently a plumbers bill that I was told would be sent straight away and that I still hadn't received after a month. Turns out it had been sent to my email and ended up in the spam filter.

I’ve done same for an electrician. He just wasn’t sending it. Took him 9 months! But it’s not the same as this. I didn’t even know i was in debt with welsh water. I assumed I was, but the house was unoccupied and not used so I didn’t know.

But anyway, it’s not the initial missed bill is the issue. It’s the fact no reminders are sent and instead reporting to the cra without warning. It’s unbelievably terrible practice by Welsh water. Why would any humane person do that to someone? It doesn’t help people with financial difficulty but just makes things worse. 

HampshireH

infocomo said:

I am looking for advice please, in regards to bad processes at Welsh Water. 

I purchased a buy to let November 2019, and requested Welsh Water email me the bill for the period November 1st 2019 to December 31st 2019 when it was unoccupied, before the tenant moved in. I did the same for all the other bills and council tax, and paid them promptly when received. 

I did not receive the bill from Welsh Water at that time. Instead, I received a reminder from them in the post 9 months later! I paid it promptly in September 2020, and thought the matter closed.

----

A few months ago I wanted to get a mortgage but my credit rating has dramatically dropped and I cannot. Turns out Welsh Water reported the 9 months of missed payment to the credit agencies. My file shows all these months as missed payments, during which I had no idea. 

I am dumbfounded they have done this without sending a reminder. Normally you would receive reminders to pay missed bills, but Welsh Water are not sending them (they admit this), and instead reporting it to the credit agencies, whilst their customers dont even know they have a bill to pay (if they miss the main first one). I am also dumbfounded because I have to use Welsh Water, there is no competition I can change to.

Welsh water state "a Default Notice can be sent at any time after an account has fallen at least three months in arrears.  In your case, the Default Notice wasn’t sent until 28th August 2020." -> unbelievable!! How can no one be legally obliged to warn me of any debts and default notices before reporting them? A simple reminder in the post 1 month after due to would have avoided all this. 

A theory is the initial bill went into my spam because they have since sent me records showing the email was sent by them. I save all my emails into my inbox, and nothing there. But my spam is auto-deleted by Yahoo after 30 days so I cant confirm it was in there. They do not track email openings so they cannot prove its unopened, but I cannot prove I did not receive it. So in their case I am guilty unless proven innocent which I cannot do. 

The water bill was only £70 something, and I have an untarnished credit rating, my financial status is very good, so I should not have a bad credit rating from this. 
I therefore think Welsh Waters process is terrible. I do not think I should be in this position due to not receiving their bill, all it would take is a reminder. I cannot even set postal bills in their system, its email only, and email is unreliable as I have seen by not getting the first bill. 

I have tried using the Consumer Council for Water but it seems they just pass messages back and forth and don't have authority to demand Welsh Walter do anything. 

Welsh Water have stated they consider the matter closed and wont reply any more. So I am wondering what my options are now, is seeking the advice of a solicitor my only option?

I dont think i could have done anything to avoid this situation seen as I did not get the bill, and so dont think I should be in this position. 

Thanks
 

You could have added their email address to your safe sender list so it didn't go to your spam box.

You could routinely check your spam box.

You could have queried it not turning up and requested a copy to be resent.

At the end of the day, you knew the water hadn't been paid for and you knew that it would be owed if not on a DD then on whatever billing system you arranged (6monthly, quarterly, final bill whatever).

I think you will struggle to fight this, mostly down to the fact they can prove they sent it, and you are the one responsible for your spam box being emptied 30days without checking.

The lack of reminder is poor form in my view but unless a legal requirement it's not a case I think you will succeed at winning.