is gazumping/higher offers back everywhere in UK?

sammyjammy

JJR45 said:

Recent studies show that people tend to work longer hours when at home also, so even the greater work life balance argument flies out the window.

Totall agree with that, I'm one of those that say I'll just do this/that when if I had been in the office I would have packed up and gone home, there are though others that I work with who take advantage of the fact that nobody can see them or what they are/are not doing, **** takers as I like to call them.  On WFH I'd rather go back to the office where I get to forget (and don't have to look at) my work paraphernalia and get those **** takers pulling their weight again. 

Mickey666

Salemicus said:

Most people in high paying jobs are already competing nationally and indeed internationally. The high-flying financiers referenced earlier in this thread could just as well be located in Singapore, New York, etc. Moving to fully remote is undesirable if it affects your productivity (e.g. by making it harder to liaise with your colleagues) but the idea that it will make it possible for your employer to outsource you to a lower wage country is laughable. If you can work from home at all, your employer can already replace you if they want. You just might not realise it yet.

Yes, it depends a lot on the type of business.

Back in the 80s I was involved in the technology side of things for 'big bang' in the City of London and was involved in many large financial trading room projects.  Having built their own trading floors the banks quickly realised that this new way of working no longer restricted them to the 'square mile' of the City, with all its associated high costs of floor space etc.  I worked on a couple of large projects for banks that decided to move to cheaper areas of London to build their new trading floor, one of which was a 350 desk trading floor in a building behind Oxford St.  While the technology performed flawlessly and the traders could do their job just as well as in the heart of the City, within three years the bank had ditched their new multi-million investment and moved back into the City to build a new trading floor.  The reason?  Their staff were no longer mixing with other banks' staff during the day and evening and felt they were becoming a little 'out of touch' with what was happening in the markets.  There's a reason that merchant banks tend to congregate in tightly defined financial centres around the world, even tough technology has long freed them up to be able to operate from any suitably equipped location.

My point is that radical factors (in my example technology, but currently the covid-induced WFH trend) might create the opportunity for radical changes in business operations, but it's not always easy to predict the knock-on effect of such changes.  For every seemingly good idea and new opportunity there can be unintended consequences lurking in the wings.  Time will tell.

Beartricks

sammyjammy said:

JJR45 said:

Recent studies show that people tend to work longer hours when at home also, so even the greater work life balance argument flies out the window.

Totall agree with that, I'm one of those that say I'll just do this/that when if I had been in the office I would have packed up and gone home, there are though others that I work with who take advantage of the fact that nobody can see them or what they are/are not doing, **** takers as I like to call them.  On WFH I'd rather go back to the office where I get to forget (and don't have to look at) my work paraphernalia and get those **** takers pulling their weight again. 

Personally, while I make every effort to log off at a reasonable time there's no remote monitoring going on at my job so it feels like showing as online after 5pm is an indicator to all those managers who can't seem to log off themselves that you're working hard.

I think it's very easy for working after hours to become the expected thing to do. My default when I see an email that was sent at 8pm is "why can't you get your work done when you're being paid to do it?" but I think a lot of middle managers see it as an indicator that you're going above and beyond. Really they're just creating unrealistic expectations of what can be done in a working day which will be damaging in the long run, and they're working more for the same wage so they're being paid less for their time.

BikingBud

Beartricks said:

sammyjammy said:

JJR45 said:

Recent studies show that people tend to work longer hours when at home also, so even the greater work life balance argument flies out the window.

Totall agree with that, I'm one of those that say I'll just do this/that when if I had been in the office I would have packed up and gone home, there are though others that I work with who take advantage of the fact that nobody can see them or what they are/are not doing, **** takers as I like to call them.  On WFH I'd rather go back to the office where I get to forget (and don't have to look at) my work paraphernalia and get those **** takers pulling their weight again. 

Personally, while I make every effort to log off at a reasonable time there's no remote monitoring going on at my job so it feels like showing as online after 5pm is an indicator to all those managers who can't seem to log off themselves that you're working hard.

I think it's very easy for working after hours to become the expected thing to do. My default when I see an email that was sent at 8pm is "why can't you get your work done when you're being paid to do it?" but I think a lot of middle managers see it as an indicator that you're going above and beyond. Really they're just creating unrealistic expectations of what can be done in a working day which will be damaging in the long run, and they're working more for the same wage so they're being paid less for their time.

What is a working day? When are you being paid to do the work?
And what are you being paid for, delivery of certain products or just being "at work"?
If a task has to be completed by a date, says 1 Jun, does it matter if I'm working remotely if I go out biking all week and work the long weekend?  
Whilst the bankers may need to collocated so they can trade their inside information and ensure they are seen to be mingling in the correct crowd a lot of people who need very little to deliver the service, removing the shackles of office work and hours might actually be enlightening and stimulating and thereby increase productivity.

zagubov

Is it all of the UK or just England and Wales? I'm skeptical it's ever a thing in Scotland and ignorant about what happens in Northern Ireland.

JJR45

BikingBud said:

If a task has to be completed by a date, says 1 Jun, does it matter if I'm working remotely if I go out biking all week and work the long weekend?  

Surely the idea people work "office hours" from home mainly is because they are contactable during that time also?
They may have wanted you do a different piece  of work as that 1 Jun one does not need to be until the 7th.

It is going to be very inefficient for most companies if people do what ever hours they want, which ever day they want.
Most companies work certain times due to the fact their customers tend to work the same times as well (apart from retail etc.)

BikingBud

You're making assumptions about everybody's business model that they need to work office hours.

Tell me what needs doing and by when and it generally can be done. If we have team meeting in the am with clear tasks and priorities then delivery against that is not usually a problem. Yes some jobs need to be available and responsive but not all roles require office hours. Sometimes it's just about micro-management and control and not about trusting the staff to get the required output.

Scotbot

Beartricks said:

sammyjammy said:

JJR45 said:

Recent studies show that people tend to work longer hours when at home also, so even the greater work life balance argument flies out the window.

Totall agree with that, I'm one of those that say I'll just do this/that when if I had been in the office I would have packed up and gone home, there are though others that I work with who take advantage of the fact that nobody can see them or what they are/are not doing, **** takers as I like to call them.  On WFH I'd rather go back to the office where I get to forget (and don't have to look at) my work paraphernalia and get those **** takers pulling their weight again. 

Personally, while I make every effort to log off at a reasonable time there's no remote monitoring going on at my job so it feels like showing as online after 5pm is an indicator to all those managers who can't seem to log off themselves that you're working hard.

I think it's very easy for working after hours to become the expected thing to do. My default when I see an email that was sent at 8pm is "why can't you get your work done when you're being paid to do it?" but I think a lot of middle managers see it as an indicator that you're going above and beyond. Really they're just creating unrealistic expectations of what can be done in a working day which will be damaging in the long run, and they're working more for the same wage so they're being paid less for their time.

I have a number of colleagues who happily work between 8pm and 10pm as they are out of office between 3pm and 7pm. All of them  mums who want to spend time with their kids after school. 

Mickygg

MobileSaver said:

GarretC said:

MobileSaver said:

GarretC said:

I'm shocked with the number of people making long-term decisions based on short-term situations.

I haven't seen any of this data. Can you share a link to where you've seen details on all these people making long-term decisions based on short-term situations?

I could introduce you to the colleagues and acquaintances if you wish? I never said there was a mass exodus, just that there are people making these decisions.

Your comment "I'm shocked with the number of people" gave the impression there were lots of people doing so and certainly did not suggest you were only talking about a handful of people that you know personally.

That happens a lot on here, posts pointing to the masses and a fair representative when really the sample is based on Uncle Jack and Bob the builders neighbour. 

lookstraightahead

Back to the office for me. I think it is going to be that for many. 

When the dust settles the last couple of years will seem strange from a behaviour perspective. There are some benefits to working online, but we are not that type of animal really.