My S&S Not going well..

6022tivo

Hey. I'm no expert. 
I have a pension that I just allow Aviva to manage on the markets.
Had some spare cash before and after the financial year so fancied a punt at a S&S isa that I can play around with. 
Went for a Interactive Investor account with TCB. 

After reading the articles on the site I did a few little buy and sells, but wanted to do some long term chunks. 
So these two I went for are now on a decent loss. 
JPMorgan Emerging Markets Ord JMG (Currently on a 14% loss)
Baillie Gifford Shin Nippon Ord BGS (Currently on a 11% loss)
I'm in two minds to either make a better effort, or just get rid and plunge  into a managed vanguard or BMO. 

I'm in for my two years allowance of 40k. Have a Cash ISA maturing next month of value that I think I can transfer in.

Apart from this post being a great example of why the common person can't manage money, is a managed Vanguard or BMO option worth it with II and the £10 a month fee? 

steampowered

Leave the money where it is.

Stocks and shares go up and down from time to time, why is why they are viewed as long term investments. You would face exactly the same risks with a Vanguard fund.

Both of the funds you mentioned have actually done extremely well over the past 12 months. The JPMorgan fund has gone up by about 50% over the past 12 months - so if you had bought a couple of months earlier you would be quids in. You were simply unlucky to have bought before a small market correction.

The ideal with the stock markets is to "buy low, sell high". You are proposing to do the opposite. You should consider selling when your investment goes up, not when it goes down!

You should not think that you can "control" the market or "make a better effort". It is simply not possible to predict how the stock market will perform over the sorts of timeframe you are looking at (3-4 months). What you can do is make investments which are sensible and suitable for your risk appetite. Then you can be pretty confident that it will work out well over the long term, as long term trends are much more consistent than short term trends.

grumiofoundation

6022tivo said:

Hey. I'm no expert. 
I have a pension that I just allow Aviva to manage on the markets.
Had some spare cash before and after the financial year so fancied a punt at a S&S isa that I can play around with. 
Went for a Interactive Investor account with TCB. 

Not really sure what question you are asking but it this is money to "punt" or "play around with" is a 10-15% loss that big an issue? 

After reading the articles on the site I did a few little buy and sells, but wanted to do some long term chunks. 

So these two I went for are now on a decent loss. 
JPMorgan Emerging Markets Ord JMG (Currently on a 14% loss)
Baillie Gifford Shin Nippon Ord BGS (Currently on a 11% loss)
I'm in two minds to either make a better effort, or just get rid and plunge  into a managed vanguard or BMO. 

What made you invest in these 2 funds  investments? 
I'd be surprised if anywhere you read suggested holding these 2 funds  investments in isolation.

What made you not go for the diversified HSBC offering (or other multi-assest funds) and just invest in these 2?
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6242885/s-s-isa-hsbc-global-strategy-or#latest

How will you making a 'better effort' help? Have you not been making an effort up to now?

Apart from this post being a great example of why the common person can't manage money, is a managed Vanguard or BMO option worth it with II and the £10 a month fee? 

As an aside if you can afford to 'play' with 40k you aren't a common person. 

Linton

Over the past month or two higher risk funds reliant on high growth (like JPM EM or BG Shim Nippon) have performed poorly compared with safer funds that invest in mature, stable companies.    These things happen - for the previous 10 years the higher risk funds have generally performed very well.

The lesson to be learnt ia:  Equity investments can be very variable and are not suitable for the short term.   If you want to assess your investments look again in 5 years time.  Two months is just noise.

Bravepants

Yes, leave the money where it is for 5 years or so. Any future investments should be in something more diversified, like HSBC Global All Cap or a mixed-asset fund like one of the HSBC Global Strategy or Vanguard Life Strategy products, if you prefer fewer equities.

6022tivo

grumiofoundation said:

What made you invest in these 2 funds? 
I'd be surprised if anywhere you read suggested holding these 2 funds in isolation.

What made you not go for the diversified HSBC offering (or other multi-assest funds) and just invest in these 2?
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6242885/s-s-isa-hsbc-global-strategy-or#latest

How will you making a 'better effort' help? Have you not been making an effort up to now?

I'm not too sure tbh, possibly I was scanning through their top i60 and went for two separate funds in different areas, and was going to keep going to build up a more diverse portfolio. 
Why I didn't go for a fund then? again, thought by doing things myself with different fund areas (Not sure of the terminology) it would be a saving on management funds etc? Again, not the best move. 
I'll leave them as is, and just look at the managed funds, Vangaurd, BMO some of the HSBC ones and any others that get mentioned on here I think.
I though it would be fun to check in all the time and adjust from time to time. But it really isn't, for me anyway. 

So, look at Vanguard, BMO, HSBC and any others I should consider? 


Lastly, I think II is ok to use? £9.99 a month and I get trading credits to have a monthly punt at an individual share like I used to on X-O is ok for investments of this value, or am I wasting money with them and just pay a small fee from another company or my bank to manage? 
My first 12 months is effectively free due to the Topcashback and I don't think they have a charge to transfer. 

Voyager2002

6022tivo said:

Lastly, I think II is ok to use? £9.99 a month and I get trading credits to have a monthly punt at an individual share like I used to on X-O is ok for investments of this value, or am I wasting money with them and just pay a small fee from another company or my bank to manage? 
My first 12 months is effectively free due to the Topcashback and I don't think they have a charge to transfer. 

II with it's monthly fee makes sense for some people and not others, depending on how they use it.
As others have suggested, the simplest solution for you is to choose one investment that is globally diverse (spread around thousands of different companies around the world) to minimise risk. If you do this then you will not be trading every month and so get no benefit from the fee you pay. However, many people prefer to choose several different investments covering various sectors of the global economy, so again they are getting reasonable diversification. Such people might well choose the two investments that you have made, but they would make other investments as well so that at any time some would go up and some would go down and the overall result would be satisfactory. People who do this often need to invest more in one and less in the other and so would use the II trading credits, and so for them this would be a good platform to use.

steampowered

6022tivo said:

I though it would be fun to check in all the time and adjust from time to time. But it really isn't, for me anyway. 

You will have a lot more fun checking your account after the value has gone up

I rather enjoyed the statistic that the best performing group of investors with Fidelity from 2003 to 2013 were in fact people who had died or had forgotten about their accounts (https://theconservativeincomeinvestor.com/fidelitys-best-investors-are-dead/).  

I think that illustrates perfectly the point that people will typically get better returns by leaving their investments alone rather than adjusting them. 

grumiofoundation

6022tivo said:

grumiofoundation said:

What made you invest in these 2 funds? 
I'd be surprised if anywhere you read suggested holding these 2 funds in isolation.

What made you not go for the diversified HSBC offering (or other multi-assest funds) and just invest in these 2?
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6242885/s-s-isa-hsbc-global-strategy-or#latest

How will you making a 'better effort' help? Have you not been making an effort up to now?

I'm not too sure tbh, possibly I was scanning through their top i60 and went for two separate funds in different areas, and was going to keep going to build up a more diverse portfolio. 
Why I didn't go for a fund then? again, thought by doing things myself with different fund areas (Not sure of the terminology) it would be a saving on management funds etc? Again, not the best move. 
I'll leave them as is, and just look at the managed funds, Vangaurd, BMO some of the HSBC ones and any others that get mentioned on here I think.
I though it would be fun to check in all the time and adjust from time to time. But it really isn't, for me anyway. 

So, look at Vanguard, BMO, HSBC and any others I should consider? 

Don't think there is inherently wrong with building a portfolio of single sector funds (whether this is 'better' than a single global tracker/multi assest funds would be quite a longgggg discussion) but I might suggest it would generally be sensible to buy them all at the same time rather than adding them randomly one by one. 

(Re terminology I erroneously used fund where I meant 'investment' - whether it is fund/ETF/investment trust is far, far less important than the underlying investments - as are the fees you pay). 

You are still paying management fees for your investments [BGS (0.75%) and JPM (0.94%) ] so I am not sure what you mean re management fees. 

6022tivo said:

grumiofoundation said:

What made you invest in these 2 funds? 
I'd be surprised if anywhere you read suggested holding these 2 funds in isolation.

What made you not go for the diversified HSBC offering (or other multi-assest funds) and just invest in these 2?
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6242885/s-s-isa-hsbc-global-strategy-or#latest

How will you making a 'better effort' help? Have you not been making an effort up to now?

So, look at Vanguard, BMO, HSBC and any others I should consider? 

Probably seen this link posted on previous thread(s) (link ~year old now)
https://monevator.com/passive-fund-of-funds-the-rivals/

Thrugelmir

6022tivo said:

After reading the articles on the site I did a few little buy and sells, but wanted to do some long term chunks. 
So these two I went for are now on a decent loss. 
JPMorgan Emerging Markets Ord JMG (Currently on a 14% loss)
Baillie Gifford Shin Nippon Ord BGS (Currently on a 11% loss)
I'm in two minds to either make a better effort, or just get rid and plunge  into a managed vanguard or BMO. 

If these are long term holdings why the concern over their current value?  Sounds as if you haven't held them for very long. 

tichtich

grumiofoundation said:

6022tivo said:

grumiofoundation said:

What made you invest in these 2 funds? 
I'd be surprised if anywhere you read suggested holding these 2 funds in isolation.

What made you not go for the diversified HSBC offering (or other multi-assest funds) and just invest in these 2?
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6242885/s-s-isa-hsbc-global-strategy-or#latest

How will you making a 'better effort' help? Have you not been making an effort up to now?

I'm not too sure tbh, possibly I was scanning through their top i60 and went for two separate funds in different areas, and was going to keep going to build up a more diverse portfolio. 
Why I didn't go for a fund then? again, thought by doing things myself with different fund areas (Not sure of the terminology) it would be a saving on management funds etc? Again, not the best move. 
I'll leave them as is, and just look at the managed funds, Vangaurd, BMO some of the HSBC ones and any others that get mentioned on here I think.
I though it would be fun to check in all the time and adjust from time to time. But it really isn't, for me anyway. 

So, look at Vanguard, BMO, HSBC and any others I should consider? 

Probably seen this link posted on previous thread(s) (link ~year old now)
https://monevator.com/passive-fund-of-funds-the-rivals/

Nice article. Thanks. I particularly liked this part:

They ignore Jeremy Siegel’s research that indicates companies removed from the S&P 500 Index actually outperform the companies that replace them in the index (Siegel pointed out that buying the original S&P 500 and holding it forever would give you an extra 1.5% per year over actually owning an S&P 500 index fund that incorporates the new changes because the depressed valuations of companies leaving the S&P 500 provide a value basis for outperformance going forward.)