Contradictory info re fee for set aside with consent

Johnersh

If you have the cash to burn its probably fastest to just pay the claimant, provided that they agree to the set aside and assist with the draft order and any correspondence to the court in support of the application. 

Any lawyer will charge fees in excess of the sums in dispute because the sums are so low and labour costs are not.

You are required to liaise with Elms not VCS as they have told you to liaise with them as the legal representative. Naturally their one job is to represent their client, so whilst they may agree to your application, their only concern is to get the money in. They're unlikely to offer discounts. 

This is litigation. I'm afraid there are no absolute guarantees, whatever anyone tells you. 

zoe21b

Johnersh said:

If you have the cash to burn its probably fastest to just pay the claimant, provided that they agree to the set aside and assist with the draft order and any correspondence to the court in support of the application. 

Any lawyer will charge fees in excess of the sums in dispute because the sums are so low and labour costs are not.

You are required to liaise with Elms not VCS as they have told you to liaise with them as the legal representative. Naturally their one job is to represent their client, so whilst they may agree to your application, their only concern is to get the money in. They're unlikely to offer discounts. 

This is litigation. I'm afraid there are no absolute guarantees, whatever anyone tells you. 

Thanks, yes, this is what I'd like to do IF it doesn't put me in a worse position if they play silly games...I need to not paint myself into a corner. I also want to avoid them fighting back if possible. So in effect I accept paying the £185 Judgment (they won, I shouldn't have stopped where I did and if the rules of the game - the law - allows this to happen no matter how indignant I am then so be it) and £100 court fee (my cost for trying to get this cleared from my credit history).

I have already had further discussions on pepipoo and legalbeagles but right now I only listen to the people here so a bit of update on where I am currently.

This is the 8 step process Elms have agreed to:
1) I outline the steps in the process by email.

2) They agree by email to this process and supply the draft consent order.

3) I reply back with agreement to consent order or proposed changes.

4) I supply filled in N244.

5) They reply back with agreement to N244 or proposed changes.

6) They request payment of £185 to satisfy the judgment. I pay £185 to them.

7) They send me completed and signed off consent order and N244.

8) I pay court fee £100 and send the consent order and N244 to court.

See any holes or weaknesses in above process?

Elms very quickly did step 2. We're currently in step 3 (apologies, I mistakenly said we're in step 2 in a previous post).

I have their initial consent order draft, the body is (my retype so might be small deviations):


CONSENT ORDER
Upon the Defendant having paid the Default Judgment in full on [Insert Date] to ELMS Legal Ltd under payment number [Insert Payment Authorisation Number Where Applicable], a law firm instructed on behalf of the Claimant for Debt Recovery Services, and given the Defendant is currently in the process of applying for finance [Please Insert Any Alternative Reason Where Appropriate] and given the Parties have agreed to the below terms: -

IT IS HEREBY ORDERED BY CONSENT THAT:
1. The Default Judgment entered on [Insert Date] under Claim No: [Insert Claim Number] be Set-Aside.
2. The registration entry be cancelled and removed from the Register.
3. There be no order as to costs.

Questions/concerns:

a) Re @Jonersh's first para. How do I ask Elms to deal with any correspondence to the court; is this what they do as normal process or do I risk they stall or don't do it, or should I do this myself to stay in control?

b) How do I know that Elms will do what we have agreed after I've paid them? A solicitor said he thinks they will because they are governed (being legal executives) so I could file a complaint. I am not interested in filing complaints that might not lead anywhere but I am interested in having a waterproof and bulletproof process so I know they will do what they need to and I guess so they are happy enough that I will pay them at some time shortly without too much work for them.

c) Should I try and force payment after set aside instead of up front (will the judge be more inclined to reject if debt has been satisfied already)? How is this done then, by a single line in the numbered list that Defendant will upon successful set aside pay Claimant £185 to settle the Judgment? (please give exact wording if you can)

d) The reference in CO is about applying for finance is blatant credit washing as per poster on other forum. I think I need to not have that. What alternative reason should I include instead? Any complete rewrite of their draft would be good to, I can just send it back and say, here is my proposal to their proposal.

e) Is everything else in the CO dandy? Missing anything? Meeting whats needed to get CCJ set aside and removed permanently from my credit history (obviously pending the judge's decision).

f) I have seen in two different posts elsewhere that (recently) people have said that VCS have stopped using Elms. My worry is that I go through above and ultimately pay Elms £185 and nothing else happen. At some time in the future when I chase VCS etc VCS will tell me "sorry, we don't use Elms, so you paid the wrong company". How do I make sure that at the time of payment, my payment of £185 is going to the correct party and that will lead to the removal from the register?

g) What do I fill in the N244, especially in box 3? and box 10?

h) Also ref to @Jonersh's first para. Elms has not mentioned a 'draft order' but the N244 ask if I have attached one. Is what I/we refer to as 'consent order' and what Elms specifically call 'CONSENT ORDER' in the text? If not, do I need to include a 'draft order'?

i) Do I include a Witness Statement? A draft defence? Anything else?

j) If this goes pear shaped, can I recover by then filing an unconsented set aside claim and still have a defence (my main go-to defence - I think - is that I never received anything but had I then I would either have paid the initial £60 discounted 'invoice' or defended myself. There may also be defences around they didn't do a trace before going to court (Claim date is in february 2020) and maybe even that no contract was entered into. But I prefer not to down these paths unless I am being forced to. If they play nice and £185+£100 sorts it then I'm happy.

zoe21b

A few dates re the case:
06/2019-07/2019 moved from address1 to address2 (I had a few weeks overlap so had access to both addresses)
10/2019 Alleged parking infraction. I was there. I might or might not have done anything wrong.
02/2020 Claim lodged with court
03/2020 Judgment/CCJ
04/2020 VCS passed to Elms
01/2021 Discovered on credit history.
01/2021 Requested info from VCS
03/2021 Submitted SAR to VCS
04/2021 Received SAR result from VCS
05/2021 Welcome to today.

Coupon-mad

But is there any way it would possible to tell me how to identify one or more people/companies I can engage with to do this for me?

There is no such firm except for solicitors.  You don't need it.  You are just filing in one form now.

You've agreed a way forward with Elms already (pay £185 and they will consent, and it will cost £100 and they have proposed a consent order). 

Therefore there is no need to now pay a solicitor to pick up the baton that you've already run most of the way with.  Elms are a legal firm with a solicitor in charge (Mr Shoreman-Lawson) and they can't backtrack on this proposal which looks OK to me, in your shoes (because you want it done and because you found out about the CCJ in January which is quite a delay for a mandatory set aside after all):

This is the 8 step process Elms have agreed to:
1) I outline the steps in the process by email.
See any holes or weaknesses in above process?

2) They agree by email to this process and supply the draft consent order.

3) I reply back with agreement to consent order or proposed changes.

4) I supply filled in N244.

5) They reply back with agreement to N244 or proposed changes.

6) They request payment of £185 to satisfy the judgment. I pay £185 to them.

7) They send me completed and signed off consent order and N244.

8) I pay court fee £100 and send the consent order and N244 to court.

Looks OK. 

You might or might not get Elms to agree to submit the N244 but that's just a bog standard form (download one from Google) and the NEWBIES thread shows links as to how to answer the questions on it.  Also, your 8 step proposal includes Elms looking at it and pointing out any changes so you really don't need a solicitor to complete your agreed steps!

It is a shame to pay VCS money but I see the above that you have agreed is pragmatic.

zoe21b

I've got two more questions to add the my list above:

k) I have now read even more posts, and seen more talking about the urgency of getting the set aside to the court asap after discovering the CCJ. It would, at best, be 4 months later in my case. How much damage does this do to my case and are there any mitigation possible. Maybe explaining lack of knowledge; the court didn't mention on the two calls with them in January; provide a timeline for when it was out of my hands; adding this on the N244 or elsewhere to show exactly where the time was burned (VCS).

L) I am sure I have seen posts where people say the delay is no problem (one of the legal companies I'm considering say this, too) but I have seen more posts that it is urgent. Any clear(ish) view on this?

Johnersh

Promptness is a requirement, as you'll know if you read the forum or rule CPR 13.3

The situation is different, of course, when the application is consented to as the court is not considering a disputed application. 

The order *should* be made, but as suggested previously, the court doesn't have to endorse what is agreed by the parties (although it often does). 

zoe21b

Johnersh said:

Promptness is a requirement, as you'll know if you read the forum or rule CPR 13.3

The situation is different, of course, when the application is consented to as the court is not considering a disputed application. 

The order *should* be made, but as suggested previously, the court doesn't have to endorse what is agreed by the parties (although it often does). 

So...my 4 months delay, albeit not my deliberate choice (I've only really known about the time urgency this month)...any thoughts on if this is anything that can/should be done anything about (like maybe provide an explanation for why it's 4 months later or something else)?

Sorry, what do you mean with "the *order* should be made"? Why asterisks and what order?
(sorry if dumb question but I have read about "orders", "draft orders", "consent orders" and I think there was another one, too)

Are all these the same? Is this the consent order from Elms that I included above?

zoe21b

I guess, now, when I will go the Elms route and people have given me assurances that Elms can't just bail when I've paid, the my biggest worry is about the judge deeming it to be credit washing and reject it based on that.

My reading of this bit in the Elms consent order template (and someone else picked up on this, too) is that it clearly is credit washing:

 "and given the Defendant is currently in the process of applying for finance [Please Insert Any Alternative Reason Where Appropriate] and given"

Anyone disagree? If not, what should I do - considering I have agreed with Elms that I can propose changes to the consent order - should I have this replaced with? Ideally something that Elms can swallow...ideally something that makes it a mandatory ground so it *will* be set aside. I encourage you to give me the exact wording.

zoe21b

If I manage to get it set aside with consent, what happens then?

I know it will be removed from the credit report, but is there still a case that needs to be done something with - or will this close it off for good (i.e. neither me or claimant can re-open or appeal or anything)?

Coupon-mad

 My reading of this bit in the Elms consent order template (and someone else picked up on this, too) is that it clearly is credit washing:
"and given the Defendant is currently in the process of applying for finance [Please Insert Any Alternative Reason Where Appropriate] and given"

Ask them to remove that.  No need to replace it.

Sorry, what do you mean with "the *order* should be made"? Why asterisks and what order?

He means the Order you want, to set aside this CCJ should be made in these circumstances and because it is uncontested the 4 months should not matter, but it's only 'should' because we can't guarantee a Judge will agree.  But getting a solicitor to send this to the court would not change that and it SHOULD be set aside.  You have no need to talk about why this has taken 4 months (after all you were negotiating with the Claimant after initially finding out from the court what it was about).

If I manage to get it set aside with consent, what happens then?

The CCJ is removed and your credit rating will show the change the following month, in our experience.

I know it will be removed from the credit report, but is there still a case that needs to be done something with - or will this close it off for good (i.e. neither me or claimant can re-open or appeal or anything)?

It will be over because the Consent Order includes the fact that you have settled the claim by paying £185.  They can't renege on that or re-open it.