Documents not provided

Jordec

That should have said ‘uncertified copies’ are not legal documents.

user1977

It really depends what sort of "documents" you're talking about - apply for e.g. a planning consent these days and all you'll ever get is a pdf. If anybody doubts it, they can go and look it up themselves on the council's website. As I said, it's normal for transactions to proceed (largely) on the basis of copy documents, rather than solicitors demanding to run their fingers over bits of original (or certified as original) paper. So although it sounds like you've got a point if you don't even have copies of everything, I wouldn't get hung up about the copies/originals point.

Jordec

It’s the Fensa, building regs completion and guarantees that I am concerned about. I checked planning before we got close to exchange, but completion certs clearly say to keep the original. The guarantee is likely to be worthless too, unless we have receipts and dates etc. I think if the vendor had these docs, he’d have at least provided copies. My solicitor didn’t check they existed and advised that everything was in order. There were no searches, no survey, no mortgages to surrender or secure, just a few docs to check. It was the easiest transaction for them and still they messed up.

macman

What electrical certs? This is not a legal requirement of sale, and would only be supplied if you commissioned an electrical survey at your own expense-in which case you would have got it direct from the electrician you commissioned, not from the vendor.
Any planning transactions can simply be downloaded from the LA's website: they are a matter of public record.
If you think your conveyancer has been negligent ,then you need to follow their complaints procedure as outlined in their terms of engagement that you will have received at the outset.

Jordec

Thanks Macman, I am following their complaints procedure. The electrical certs was the sign off the the work they had done, you get an official cert in place of building regs. These are a requirement under building regs and do form part of the sale unless the purchaser states they are not required. These were specifically requested. Planning is accessible on the website, but not building regs completion.

ss2020jd

Your solicitor should usually have forwarded these by now. You can check the fensa certificate (although may have to pay for reissue) and Planning online.
I have originals of boiler installation and electrical installation paperwork but my building regs completion certificate I believe was emailed as a PDF to builder and he printed it and gave it to me. This can also be cross-referenced with building control if required. 

On the property information form the seller has to state they have the particular paperwork and whether it is enclosed or to follow. 

Tiglet2

Jordec said:

This is a legal point. Copies are easily tampered with. I worked in forensics for many years and copies are not legal documents. Aside from this, I don’t think the vendor even has some of the docs. I don’t feel that I am being paranoid either, I bought the house 13 weeks ago and think I have been very patient. As the weeks go by, you start to wonder why the documents have not been provided. I chased the solicitors, who told me they had not had them yet and would chase them up. I chased again and again, they contacted the vendor’s solicitor. Meanwhile, we contacted the vendor, who assured us on more than one occasion that his solicitor had sent them to ours on completion. He now admits this was a lie, saying that his solicitor never had them, so I can’t help but worry now.

During the course of the transaction, the vendor's solicitor would only provide "copies" of documents to your solicitor.  The vendor's solicitor may or may not have received originals from the vendor.  If the vendor had provided the originals, then these would be sent by the vendor's solicitor to your solicitor on completion.  If the vendor did not provide originals to their solicitor (vendors often state that they will leave originals in the property on completion), their solicitor would not have any documents to send to your solicitor.

Some solicitors hold all the documents until they can send them to you along with the updated title register, though with current Land Registry delays, I would expect solicitors to send documents out prior to receiving the updated register.

It costs around £25 to obtain a duplicate Fensa certificate from the Fensa website.  If there is an NICEIC Certificate, you can obtain a duplicate for £10 from NICEIC.  If there is a Gas Safety Certificate you can obtain a duplicate for £6 from the Gas Safety website.   In any case, when you come to sell, you can always offer a building regulations indemnity policy as an alternative if you don't have any documents.

Lastly, if, as you state, the vendor did not have the original documents, then the solicitor cannot send what they don't have.  If "copies" were provided to you (or suitable indemnity policy) during the conveyancing, you at least have the certificate numbers in order to obtain official duplicates.   

During the past year with the pandemic, solicitors have been working online from home, using email to correspond.  Clients have been advised to upload documents rather than post them (with the exception of the Contract, Transfer and Mortgage Deed), so it is highly likely that the vendor's solicitor never received the original documents.



 

p00hsticks

You can check to see if there is a FENSA certificate registered for the property here, https://forms.fensa.org.uk/fensa-certificate

and (if there is) order a copy of the certificate if you're prepared to pay £25 - I can't promise that it won't be sent electronically though.

SallyCinnamon

p00hsticks said:

You can check to see if there is a FENSA certificate registered for the property here, https://forms.fensa.org.uk/fensa-certificate

and (if there is) order a copy of the certificate if you're prepared to pay £25 - I can't promise that it won't be sent electronically though.

I had to pay for a replacement FENSA cert for my sale and it was indeed sent by pdf

Jordec

Pdfs would be fine for Fensa, but these don’t exist. My main issue is that I should have been informed that they were missing before exchange. I will now have to spend time and money securing these and if they don’t exist, then it will cost even more for retrospective regs or indemnities. This cost should not be passed on to me.