Seiss grant 4 incorrect

MattMattMattUK

Haylz01 said:

I welcome to hear news of anyone else in a similar scenario to us, and hope that you will appeal it heavily, which is what we will be doing. 

You have no grounds for appeal, the grant will be processed in compliance with the relevant act of parliament. You would only have grounds for appeal if they grant was not in line with the legislation. 

Haylz01

MattMattMattUK said:

Haylz01 said:

I welcome to hear news of anyone else in a similar scenario to us, and hope that you will appeal it heavily, which is what we will be doing. 

You have no grounds for appeal, the grant will be processed in compliance with the relevant act of parliament. You would only have grounds for appeal if they grant was not in line with the legislation. 

Then why would HMRC tell me to write in to appeal it? 

zzyzx1221

Haylz01 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Haylz01 said:

I welcome to hear news of anyone else in a similar scenario to us, and hope that you will appeal it heavily, which is what we will be doing. 

You have no grounds for appeal, the grant will be processed in compliance with the relevant act of parliament. You would only have grounds for appeal if they grant was not in line with the legislation. 

Then why would HMRC tell me to write in to appeal it? 

Because it's a boilerplate response.

And does it say you should write in to appeal it, or can write in to appeal it?

Jeremy535897

Haylz01 said:

I welcome to hear news of anyone else in a similar scenario to us, and hope that you will appeal it heavily, which is what we will be doing. 

Your situation is unfortunate, but there is no point in appealing against what the law clearly states.

Jeremy535897

It is explained clearly here:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-hmrc-works-out-total-income-and-trading-profits-for-the-self-employment-income-support-scheme

Where there seems to be a new problem is people not declaring self employment income in 2019/20 where turnover is £1,000 or less (because you are told you don't need to), and HMRC then assumes you were not trading in 2019/20, rendering you ineligible for SEISS 4 and 5. I think this situation should be appealed, because the underlying law (the Treasury Direction) says:

"9.1 For the purposes of SEISS 4, paragraph 10 of SEISS does not apply and amounts of trading profits and relevant income are determined by reference to a person’s tax returns for any relevant tax years as at 2 March 2021." It does not say that an absence of entries due to turnover being under £1,000 means you are not treated as trading.

JJC1956

If for argument sake a company makes net profit £51k average for the 3 years, 16/17, 17/18 and 18/19, the company is not entitled to SEISS but if in year 19/20 the company makes less than £47K, HMRC takes the average across the 4 years and then the sole trader/self employed will be entitled to SEISS. 
Was your husband in a partnership before 19/20? Did he trade under a different name or use a different address? If so he might have a case but HMRC have quite strict rules for eligibility. (Ask Ltd Company owners).
My question to fellow bloggers is: If you make profits of say £10,000 per annum from your work and £15,000 from lettings, does that make you ineligible or does it have to exceed the £50k threshold?

Jeremy535897

JJC1956 said:

If for argument sake a company makes net profit £51k average for the 3 years, 16/17, 17/18 and 18/19, the company is not entitled to SEISS but if in year 19/20 the company makes less than £47K, HMRC takes the average across the 4 years and then the sole trader/self employed will be entitled to SEISS. 
Was your husband in a partnership before 19/20? Did he trade under a different name or use a different address? If so he might have a case but HMRC have quite strict rules for eligibility. (Ask Ltd Company owners).
My question to fellow bloggers is: If you make profits of say £10,000 per annum from your work and £15,000 from lettings, does that make you ineligible or does it have to exceed the £50k threshold?

Your reference to a company is misleading. Sole traders and partnerships are not companies. You are ineligible for SEISS 4/5 if your trading profits are less than your other taxable income for 2019/20, and your trading profits are less than your other taxable income for the years 2016/17 (or whatever your first year of trading was if after 2016/17) to 2019/20 inclusive. The £50,000 trading profit limit is a separate test. 

Haylz01

Just to give a calculated example of what has happened..

My husband started a small business in 2016 and his profits were as follows:

2016/17 - £2000
17/18 -  £4000
18/19 - £7000
19/20 - £27000

The first three years he kept his day job as you can see the sole trader income is not enough to support a family of four. So rightly so we were not eligible to claim for the first 3 because his earnings from his job were higher than 50%.

However to now include those years when working out an average mount when you wouldn't let him include them before...it dosnt take anyone with half a brain cell to work out that's just morally wrong. 

poppy12345

Whether it's right or wrong, it's the rules and there's nothing anyone can do. Appealing it will be a waste of your time and there's.

sheramber

Then contact the chancellor Rishi Sunak  it is t his policy and the rules the Government  agreed to calculate the amount of the grant.