Will Advice

Manxman_in_exile

My sympathies for your loss - it must be very distressing to have to cope with this pension mess on top of everything else.

I agree with above advice to contact the Pension Advisory Service ASAP.

I would suggest that either your wife's pension provider has got wrong what they have told you, or the circumstances regarding your wife's pension in the event of her death are not as you believe.
Either way you will only find out by asking them why they have reached the decision that they have.  The best way to do this is by writing to them (and I would email them too) setting out the circumstances, providing copies of any evidence you have (eg a copy of your wife's nomination of you), and asking them why they consider the parents and not you should benefit. I'm assuming the Pension Advisory Service will tell you the same or similar advice, but discuss it with them.

Does you wife's pension pre-date your marriage?  Is it possible that she had previously nominated her parents but had never (for whatever reason) actually got round to nominating you or informing the pension provider of marriage?  Or if she did nominate you, was there some reason why this nomination would not have been effective?  (eg When I joined the NHS scheme unmarried partners did not qualify for a "widow's" pension unless they had been "dependent" on the scheme member.  This no longer holds but I wonder whether anything similar here?)

Good luck - and don't give up.

Mickey666

destructer said:

I am named on her pension as sole beneficiary and also on the will. The only time that our parents could become potential beneficiaries would be if we both died and there was no one left to look after our estate. They are asking for contact details of all parents so that they can be informed of being beneficiaries! I am very confused and stressed by this because our will clearly states that they are all potential executors only incase of both myself and my wife passing at the same time?

This must be a very stressful situation at a horrible time, but two things spring to mind.

Firstly, as mentioned, pensions do not usually become part of an estate and are distributed at the discretion of the pension trustees.  They will usually use the 'expression of wishes' as defined by the pension holder as a guide, rather than the actual will.

Is it possible, in this case, that the trustees are making the parents beneficiaries so that on second death they could 'look after the estate'?  I appreciate this was only intended in case of both deaths at the same time, but could the trustees interpret this differently?   Also, how old are the children?  Is it possible they could still be considered minors on the second death such that the trustees consider they would need support, via the parents, on the second death.

Secondly, how good is the relationship with the parents?  It would be nice to think that they are fully supportive of the will's intention, in which case could they not simply give the pension money to the OP as was originally intended?

xylophone

Secondly, how good is the relationship with the parents?  It would be nice to think that they are fully supportive of the will's intention, in which case could they not simply give the pension money to the OP as was originally intended?

It would seem that the relationship between the OP and his wife and her parents was virtually non-existent.

Not one of those parents ever helped throughout our lives and we never spoke and the thought of them all sharing my wife's pension fills me with utter disdain when they never offered a thing to help until my wife was two days away from dying. 

Mickey666

Hmm - I missed that with my edit.  A very sad situation

destructer

Mickey666 said:

destructer said:

I am named on her pension as sole beneficiary and also on the will. The only time that our parents could become potential beneficiaries would be if we both died and there was no one left to look after our estate. They are asking for contact details of all parents so that they can be informed of being beneficiaries! I am very confused and stressed by this because our will clearly states that they are all potential executors only incase of both myself and my wife passing at the same time?

This must be a very stressful situation at a horrible time, but two things spring to mind.

Firstly, as mentioned, pensions do not usually become part of an estate and are distributed at the discretion of the pension trustees.  They will usually use the 'expression of wishes' as defined by the pension holder as a guide, rather than the actual will.

Is it possible, in this case, that the trustees are making the parents beneficiaries so that on second death they could 'look after the estate'?  I appreciate this was only intended in case of both deaths at the same time, but could the trustees interpret this differently?   Also, how old are the children?  Is it possible they could still be considered minors on the second death such that the trustees consider they would need support, via the parents, on the second death.

Secondly, how good is the relationship with the parents?  It would be nice to think that they are fully supportive of the will's intention, in which case could they not simply give the pension money to the OP as was originally intended?

Hi and thanks for your reply, myself and my wife met when we left school at 16 neither of us had ever had previous boyfriends girlfriends so we learned everything together, all the challenges of life, we started out like most people with no financial help and saved everything we had, both wages were always payed into our joint account and we shared everything with open and honest transparency, we loved each other unconditionally. We lived a very private and quiet life for 31 + years and have two children 15 & 18 years old.
Both sets of parents are very well off and need no financial help.
We loved each other right up until my wife passed away and we originally made our will's as soon as we purchased our first house which were simple mirror wills.
Parents were down as 'Potential executors' in the case that both myself and my wife died together and they were never put down as beneficiaries.
Although I don't speak to my wife's parents, i do speak with my own.
I never left my wife's side as she deteriorated every day and night, i was devoted to her as she would have been to me.
My wife's pension does not predate our marriage due to the fact that we met and married at a very young age and we defied the odds as I remember people saying 'what a terrible thing to do to marry so young, it will be a mistake they said' well they are no longer laughing because we were soul mates, we both new we were meant for each other. Love is the meaning of life and my wife taught me that!
She didn't nominate anyone on her pension and the pension was started years after we married - in fact I am certain she didn't name any nominees and neither did I on mine to be honest but i have now and both my children are 50 / 50 % for it.
Everything I have today is what we built together.
Please forgive me if I gave the impression that myself and my wife were not on speaking terms - on the contrary we were very much in love and it was her parents that I didn't speak with.

xylophone

Please forgive me if I gave the impression that myself and my wife were not on speaking terms -

I don't think that you gave that impression at all - on the contrary.

Have you made any progress with the matter of the pension?

sheramber

As you children are 15 and 18 the pension company must consider who was dependent on your wife.

When my husband died his will named me to receive his estate. I was also named as beneficiary for his pension.
However, the pension company explained that they are required by law to establish who should inherit the pension.

I had to complete a form giving details of my two sons (who were in their 40's )  for them to establish that my sons had not been dependent on my husband.
They may have decided that due to the ages of the children they should inherit the money.
They seem to think that the parents are guardians  for the children.
 The problem may be the wording in your wife's will as to when the parents take over guardianship. 

orchid2010

When my brother-in- law died (he was divorced from my sister) they had 3 children under 18.  He had been paying into a DC pension and the trustees would not pay the pension out to the children until they had done a thorough investigation as they said it was possible he might have had a live in girlfriend who would be eligible for a proportion of the money and they needed to make sure.  It was very stressful at the time and took months to sort out.

Manxman_in_exile

Manxman_in_exile said:

...
I agree with above advice to contact the Pension Advisory Service ASAP.

I would suggest that either your wife's pension provider has got wrong what they have told you, or the circumstances regarding your wife's pension in the event of her death are not as you believe.
Either way you will only find out by asking them why they have reached the decision that they have.  The best way to do this is by writing to them (and I would email them too) setting out the circumstances, providing copies of any evidence you have (eg a copy of your wife's nomination of you), and asking them why they consider the parents and not you should benefit. I'm assuming the Pension Advisory Service will tell you the same or similar advice, but discuss it with them.
...
Good luck - and don't give up.

So I hope you have contacted both (1) your wife's employer/pension provider and (2) the Pension Advisory Service as suggested above?

sheramber said:

...
 The problem may be the wording in your wife's will as to when the parents take over guardianship. 

I am also suspecting that may be the problem.  (Although why would the pension provider be aware of the wife's will if the pension is not part of her estate?)

getmore4less

sheramber said:

As you children are 15 and 18 the pension company must consider who was dependent on your wife.

When my husband died his will named me to receive his estate. I was also named as beneficiary for his pension.
However, the pension company explained that they are required by law to establish who should inherit the pension.

I had to complete a form giving details of my two sons (who were in their 40's )  for them to establish that my sons had not been dependent on my husband.
They may have decided that due to the ages of the children they should inherit the money.
They seem to think that the parents are guardians  for the children.
 The problem may be the wording in your wife's will as to when the parents take over guardianship. 

Guardian nominees(in a will or other docs)  only take effect when the last of those with parental responsibility dies.