Will Advice

destructer

My wife died earlier this year from cancer and we met each other and married in our teens and I am now in my 50's, we had mirror wills with each other as executors and sole beneficiaries of our estate, our parents were named on the will as 'executors' and guardians of our children should we both die at the same time, the issue I have is that her private pension provider has informed me that they see our parents as beneficiaries of her pension?? I am named on her pension as sole beneficiary and also on the will. The only time that our parents could become potential beneficiaries would be if we both died and there was no one left to look after our estate. They are asking for contact details of all parents so that they can be informed of being beneficiaries! I am very confused and stressed by this because our will clearly states that they are all potential executors only incase of both myself and my wife passing at the same time?
Does anyone have any advice although I thought our basic mirror will clearly states our wishes as each others sole beneficiaries of our estate. This really seems contradicting of law.

elsien

What reason have the pension company given for the parents being beneficiaries?

I am wondering if this is outside the will and she nominated them on the pension paperwork, 

Who is named as executor doesn’t come into it, so them being named as replacements wouldn’t have any impact on the beneficiaries of the will or the pension. 

JGB1955

AIUI pension benefits are paid outside the estate.  If your wife nominated her parents as beneficiaries of her pension, then that's what they need to do.  However...you say you are named on her pension as sole beneficiary - there seems to be some confusion over that statement.

destructer

No her parents were not named on her will, i am named likewise so was she on mine. That is what has caused the stress, the fact that the provider seems to be misunderstanding the meaning of 'executors' in case of both us passing away and the meaning of 'potential beneficiaries' of whom the only persons named as that are myself and my wife? The parents are only named as executors and guardians in the case of us both passing away. 

elsien

Forget the will for the moment.
Who is named on the pension expression of wishes (or whatever it’s called) as being the person who the pension benefits are being paid out to in the event of the person’s death? 

destructer

So i don't understand why they are looking at the will and making out people as 'potential beneficiaries who are named as potential executors?

xylophone

Your wife had a private pension.


She completed an Expression of Wishes.



This document requested the Trustees to consider you to be the sole beneficiary of her pension if you were living at the date of her death.


However, the  EoW is not binding on the pension Trustees (although it would be unusual for them not to have regard to it).


This is for very good reasons - if it were binding on them, then the pension  might have to be paid into the deceased's estate and could potentially be subject to IHT.


As it is not binding and the Trustees have discretion, they may pay it to the named beneficiary  and/or to any other person or persons that  they consider to have a claim.

Your wife's will cannot direct how her pension is to be paid but the Trustees wish to see it in order to help them with their deliberations as above?

naedanger

destructer said:

I am named on her pension as sole beneficiary

If you have evidence of this then show it to the pension provider.

As others have said, the benefits from the pension are not normally part of a person's estate. This means a person's will has no legal effect on where the pension benefits go.

People are normally asked to nominate a beneficiary for any lump sum. It seems like the pension provider thinks your wife nominated her parents. If they are mistaken then the matter should be resolved quite quickly in your favour.

Even if your wife had nominated her parents the trustees are not usually obliged to follow the nomination. In your case, assuming you were still living as husband and wife, I would expect the trustees to consider the possibility the nomination was made in error e.g. that your wife thought she was nominating who would get the benefits if you were both not around.

bouicca21

OP are you confusing the lump sum death in service benefit with the pension?  

destructer

It's all to confusing for me TBH. There is a lump sum DIS payment plus the pension. 
It has made me realize that I should not name anyone in my will apart from my son's as it just seems to make thinks so complicated even when those named are not named as beneficiaries. 
I think the moral is to keep it simple. 
Not one of those parents ever helped throughout our lives and we never spoke and the thought of them all sharing my wife's pension fills me with utter disdain when they never offered a thing to help until my wife was two days away from dying. 
I cannot see how the pension provider can consider giving them a a share it just fills me with feeling of sickness. 
If that's the case then I would like to go for a share of their pensions. 
It all feels humiliating when I am the only person and she shared her life with and I was nursing her as she fell apart with her cancer to be told that I may have to share her pension with people that were never put on her pension as an expression of wish and were only ever on the will as executors in the clause of myself and my wife dying together and leaving our boys alone, they were never mentioned as beneficiaries of any kind on either our will or her pension.
I now cannot get the provider which is a large well known one to either call me back or email or post a letter to me and it's been 3 months now, everytime I call them I get put on hold and after a few minutes the line goes dead. It's almost as if they are ignoring me. 
I feel very much like finding the nearest bridge and ending it all because I cannot deal with this without my life partner and soulmate since we were kids to help me. 
What is the point of simple mirror will where it's just you and your wife named as sole beneficiaries for someone in a pension company to decide that a potential executor 'only' incase you both die should actually be entitled to your wife's pension. 
It's just utterly twisted. 
If this is the case then where is my share of all our parents pensions that I have just decided that I feel entitled to - that is how crazy it is because I am an executor on their will.
To be honest I've had enough and they can have the whole estate , I'd rather be with my wife looking down and laughing at them all squabbling over what tiny pension she left. 

xylophone

I feel very much like finding the nearest bridge and ending it all because I cannot deal with this without my life partner and soulmate since we were kids to help me. 

It is totally unsurprising that after more than thirty years together you should feel utterly bereft - it is so awful that at such a time there is so much to deal with relating to a much loved person's estate.

Dealing with officialdom can be very stressful  at any time, let alone in bereavement and therefore communications can be misunderstood.

I do hope that your sons are assisting you at this very sad period of your life.

 

Is this a Defined Benefit Pension?  If so I would have thought that you are entitled to a widower's pension, presumably based on a percentage of your wife's pension?

It is the DIS lump sum that is the subject of the Letter of Wishes/Form of Nomination? See the above re the Trustees discretion but remember that it would be very unusual  for the Trustees not to have regard to the wishes of the deceased.

Would you find it helpful to discuss  the situation with TPAS?

https://www.pensionsadvisoryservice.org.uk/about-pensions/when-things-change/bereavement-what-to-do/lump-sum-on-death