Octopus Tracker

SJMALBA

QrizB said:

crumpet_man said:

Dolor said:

I have been on Tracker since February last year, and I have enjoyed a gas price capped at 6p/kWh since then. My price today is 3.51p/kWh but with drone attacks on Moscow today who knows what Tracker prices might be next week?

Capped at 6p?  How did you manage that?  Tracker should be capped at 30p.

Tracker v1 and Tracker v2, both launched in the days when gas was about 3p/kWh both had a 6p gas cap.

Tracker v3, launched in April last year, had an 11p gas cap (I was on V3 until fairly recently).

Its only since the Tracker tariffs have been dated (eg. Nov 22 v1) that the gas cap has been 30p. 

( I might be misremembering re. v2, that might also have had an 11p cap, but that particular tariff was only offered for a couple of weeks.)

Tracker v2 has the same standing charges as v1, but the same caps as v3.

westv

Griffindog said:

westv said:

I'm currently on v3
Current caps

electric 23.19p per kWh Standing charge 48.26p per day Gas Unit price 6.12p per kWh Standing charge 27.22p per day

 

I have never seen those caps before. v3 has been 40p/11p but reduced to the equivalent of SVR by the EPG.

Ah. maybe they were the rates as of 13/7/22 when Octopus emailed me to confirm I was on Tracker.

Edit: Considering the rates are variable, is there any way to work out the expected cost Flexible v Tracker?

Spoonie_Turtle

westv said:

Griffindog said:

westv said:

I'm currently on v3
Current caps

electric 23.19p per kWh Standing charge 48.26p per day Gas Unit price 6.12p per kWh Standing charge 27.22p per day

 

I have never seen those caps before. v3 has been 40p/11p but reduced to the equivalent of SVR by the EPG.

Ah. maybe they were the rates as of 13/7/22 when Octopus emailed me to confirm I was on Tracker.

Edit: Considering the rates are variable, is there any way to work out the expected cost Flexible v Tracker?

You could choose to go by historical average prices, but there's no certainty from that at all for future prices.

peter3hg

Doc_N said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Doc_N said:

QrizB said:

Telegraph_Sam said:

I think Doc_N's latter interpretation is what I have in mind.
My Tracker gas unit price(s) as per invoice corresponds to what the Northern formula predicts. The difference between this my retail price and the wholesale price is Octopus' margin or mark-up which I had been querying.
I hope that the explanation is no more complicated than that!

That's also quite easy to explain. There are costs incurred in supplying you (or me) with a kWh of gas that are above and beyond the wholesale gas price.

The Tracker illustration applet on Octopus's website illustrates these costs.

I don’t think anybody’s disputing the fact that there are large costs involved between pipeline and customer, not the least of which will be transmission and billing.

What might well be disputed though is whether a markup of 42% is reasonable, given the huge volumes concerned. That’s an area for Ofgem though. 

I think people might have an issue with you describing it as 'markup' - which to many people means "profit" - rather than 'difference between wholesale and total cost'.  And to be fair, T_S did say "gross" when originally posing the comment, so it clearly isn't what they meant - just how it gets interpreted. 

Plus many of the charges are per-kWh, so huge volume doesn't make it cheaper.

edit in italics.

Markup and gross profit rates are very clear to those who understand finance, as is the difference between net and gross profit.  Commodities, such as energy, usually have low markups because they're sold in volume, as is the case here.

The only thing that's in any doubt is whether a 42% markup is a reasonable return.

In the price cap, the calculation for the unit rate gives a 50% "markup" for gas above the wholesale component and the unit rate for electricity gives a 76% "markup" over the wholesale component.

On that basis 42% markup for Octopus on gas seems perfectly reasonable.

chammer

I'm currently on Agile for Electricity and Flex for gas. I've been offered a chance to join Tracker in July. Will this actually be any cheaper? 

mmmmikey

chammer said:

I'm currently on Agile for Electricity and Flex for gas. I've been offered a chance to join Tracker in July. Will this actually be any cheaper? 

Agile is cheaper at some times of day for electricity and Tracker is cheaper at others. So it depends on when you use most of your electricity. With Tracker the prices changes every day but you get the same price for the whole of the day. With Agile the price changes every 30 minutes.

As a general rule, if you are able to actively manage the way you use electricity through the day so you avoid the peak periods and only use electricity then Agile could be a better bet. But if you use electricity at whatever time suits you best Tracker could be a better bet. But unfortunately its a bit of a "how long is a piece of string" question without knwoing how much you use and when.

I don't know about gas.

Hope this helps in some way, Mike

westv

Spoonie_Turtle said:

westv said:

Griffindog said:

westv said:

I'm currently on v3
Current caps

electric 23.19p per kWh Standing charge 48.26p per day Gas Unit price 6.12p per kWh Standing charge 27.22p per day

 

I have never seen those caps before. v3 has been 40p/11p but reduced to the equivalent of SVR by the EPG.

Ah. maybe they were the rates as of 13/7/22 when Octopus emailed me to confirm I was on Tracker.

Edit: Considering the rates are variable, is there any way to work out the expected cost Flexible v Tracker?

You could choose to go by historical average prices, but there's no certainty from that at all for future prices.

Will Flexible, on average, be more expensive though?

QrizB

chammer said:

I'm currently on Agile for Electricity and Flex for gas. I've been offered a chance to join Tracker in July. Will this actually be any cheaper? 

Historically, I think Tracker has usually been cheaper than Flexible for gas.

If you manage your energy use carefully to avoid the evening peak in Agile prices, Agile can work out cheaper than Tracker for electricity.

Doc_N

peter3hg said:

Doc_N said:

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Doc_N said:

QrizB said:

Telegraph_Sam said:

I think Doc_N's latter interpretation is what I have in mind.
My Tracker gas unit price(s) as per invoice corresponds to what the Northern formula predicts. The difference between this my retail price and the wholesale price is Octopus' margin or mark-up which I had been querying.
I hope that the explanation is no more complicated than that!

That's also quite easy to explain. There are costs incurred in supplying you (or me) with a kWh of gas that are above and beyond the wholesale gas price.

The Tracker illustration applet on Octopus's website illustrates these costs.

I don’t think anybody’s disputing the fact that there are large costs involved between pipeline and customer, not the least of which will be transmission and billing.

What might well be disputed though is whether a markup of 42% is reasonable, given the huge volumes concerned. That’s an area for Ofgem though. 

I think people might have an issue with you describing it as 'markup' - which to many people means "profit" - rather than 'difference between wholesale and total cost'.  And to be fair, T_S did say "gross" when originally posing the comment, so it clearly isn't what they meant - just how it gets interpreted. 

Plus many of the charges are per-kWh, so huge volume doesn't make it cheaper.

edit in italics.

Markup and gross profit rates are very clear to those who understand finance, as is the difference between net and gross profit.  Commodities, such as energy, usually have low markups because they're sold in volume, as is the case here.

The only thing that's in any doubt is whether a 42% markup is a reasonable return.

In the price cap, the calculation for the unit rate gives a 50% "markup" for gas above the wholesale component and the unit rate for electricity gives a 76% "markup" over the wholesale component.

On that basis 42% markup for Octopus on gas seems perfectly reasonable.

Could well be. How can you trust Octopus, though, when it claims this tariff to be a loss maker?

scobie

westv said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

westv said:

Griffindog said:

westv said:

I'm currently on v3
Current caps

electric 23.19p per kWh Standing charge 48.26p per day Gas Unit price 6.12p per kWh Standing charge 27.22p per day

 

I have never seen those caps before. v3 has been 40p/11p but reduced to the equivalent of SVR by the EPG.

Ah. maybe they were the rates as of 13/7/22 when Octopus emailed me to confirm I was on Tracker.

Edit: Considering the rates are variable, is there any way to work out the expected cost Flexible v Tracker?

You could choose to go by historical average prices, but there's no certainty from that at all for future prices.

Will Flexible, on average, be more expensive though?

It’s impossible to say long term but currently agile is much cheaper. I’ve only been with Agile two days and my average electricity rate has been 18p kWh first day and just 15p average day two.  That compares to 32-33p per kWh on Flex.   I haven’t really aggressively managed the use except to do the dishwasher during the cheaper times.  

Also, the standing charge is 5p a day less (in Yorkshire at least).