Octopus Tracker

bristolleedsfan

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Doc_N said:

QrizB said:

Telegraph_Sam said:

I think Doc_N's latter interpretation is what I have in mind.
My Tracker gas unit price(s) as per invoice corresponds to what the Northern formula predicts. The difference between this my retail price and the wholesale price is Octopus' margin or mark-up which I had been querying.
I hope that the explanation is no more complicated than that!

That's also quite easy to explain. There are costs incurred in supplying you (or me) with a kWh of gas that are above and beyond the wholesale gas price.

The Tracker illustration applet on Octopus's website illustrates these costs.

I don’t think anybody’s disputing the fact that there are large costs involved between pipeline and customer, not the least of which will be transmission and billing.

What might well be disputed though is whether a markup of 42% is reasonable, given the huge volumes concerned. That’s an area for Ofgem though. 

I think people might have an issue with you describing it as 'markup' - which to many people means "profit" - rather than 'difference between wholesale and total cost'.

It actually beggars belief that when tracker gas is currently slightly more than 1/3 of SVR rate, electricity currently approx 1/2 of SVR rate + standing charges cheaper as well. that forumites are analysing what profit might be getting made by Octopus/'difference between wholesale and total cost via this tariff particularly on a thread that is supposed to be discussing fixed rates that are being offered.

Telegraph_Sam

It will not have escaped your notice that I deliberately used the term "gross" in connection with mark-up and margin precisely in order to avoid confusion with "net profit". It is possible to query both without casting judgement.

QrizB

bristolleedsfan said:

scobie said:

westv said:

I've just received the email from Octopus telling me my Tracker contract ends next month and also telling me I'll switch to Flexible if I don't do anything. They quote the rates for Flexible but not for Tracker.

How would they be able to quote Tracker rates when those rates are determined every twenty four hours ?

They are supposed to quote potential new switchers to Tracker tariff estimated kWh rate x estimated usage for 12 months based on whatever method they use for calculating estimated kWh rate.....

But west isn't a new switcher, they are an existing Tracker customer.

westv

QrizB said:

bristolleedsfan said:

scobie said:

westv said:

I've just received the email from Octopus telling me my Tracker contract ends next month and also telling me I'll switch to Flexible if I don't do anything. They quote the rates for Flexible but not for Tracker.

How would they be able to quote Tracker rates when those rates are determined every twenty four hours ?

They are supposed to quote potential new switchers to Tracker tariff estimated kWh rate x estimated usage for 12 months based on whatever method they use for calculating estimated kWh rate.....

But west isn't a new switcher, they are an existing Tracker customer.

But the Tracker caps available from mid July aren't the same caps I have on my current contract so it would have been nice if they had included them in the email they sent.

Griffindog

Unfortunately when you renew you get the £1/30p caps. I have just renewed. I had to chase an email confirming renewal and the Ts and Cs. They put you on the new tariff rather than extending the previous version.

crumpet_man

[Deleted User] said:

I have been on Tracker since February last year, and I have enjoyed a gas price capped at 6p/kWh since then. My price today is 3.51p/kWh but with drone attacks on Moscow today who knows what Tracker prices might be next week?

Capped at 6p?  How did you manage that?  Tracker should be capped at 30p.

QrizB

crumpet_man said:

Dolor said:

I have been on Tracker since February last year, and I have enjoyed a gas price capped at 6p/kWh since then. My price today is 3.51p/kWh but with drone attacks on Moscow today who knows what Tracker prices might be next week?

Capped at 6p?  How did you manage that?  Tracker should be capped at 30p.

Tracker v1 and Tracker v2, both launched in the days when gas was about 3p/kWh both had a 6p gas cap.

Tracker v3, launched in April last year, had an 11p gas cap (I was on V3 until fairly recently).

Its only since the Tracker tariffs have been dated (eg. Nov 22 v1) that the gas cap has been 30p. 

( I might be misremembering re. v2, that might also have had an 11p cap, but that particular tariff was only offered for a couple of weeks.)

Doc_N

CSI_Yorkshire said:

Doc_N said:

QrizB said:

Telegraph_Sam said:

I think Doc_N's latter interpretation is what I have in mind.
My Tracker gas unit price(s) as per invoice corresponds to what the Northern formula predicts. The difference between this my retail price and the wholesale price is Octopus' margin or mark-up which I had been querying.
I hope that the explanation is no more complicated than that!

That's also quite easy to explain. There are costs incurred in supplying you (or me) with a kWh of gas that are above and beyond the wholesale gas price.

The Tracker illustration applet on Octopus's website illustrates these costs.

I don’t think anybody’s disputing the fact that there are large costs involved between pipeline and customer, not the least of which will be transmission and billing.

What might well be disputed though is whether a markup of 42% is reasonable, given the huge volumes concerned. That’s an area for Ofgem though. 

I think people might have an issue with you describing it as 'markup' - which to many people means "profit" - rather than 'difference between wholesale and total cost'.  And to be fair, T_S did say "gross" when originally posing the comment, so it clearly isn't what they meant - just how it gets interpreted. 

Plus many of the charges are per-kWh, so huge volume doesn't make it cheaper.

edit in italics.

Markup and gross profit rates are very clear to those who understand finance, as is the difference between net and gross profit.  Commodities, such as energy, usually have low markups because they're sold in volume, as is the case here.

The only thing that's in any doubt is whether a 42% markup is a reasonable return.

westv

I'm currently on v3
Current caps

electric 23.19p per kWh Standing charge 48.26p per day Gas Unit price 6.12p per kWh Standing charge 27.22p per day

 

Griffindog

westv said:

I'm currently on v3
Current caps

electric 23.19p per kWh Standing charge 48.26p per day Gas Unit price 6.12p per kWh Standing charge 27.22p per day

 

I have never seen those caps before. v3 has been 40p/11p but reduced to the equivalent of SVR by the EPG.