Octopus Tracker

masonic

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Okay but I questioned the comment initially a while ago because the unit rate for Tracker is calculated at wholesale price plus costs plus some profit.  If the URs go above the Octopus caps then it's making a loss, but for the past few months they've been not just under the caps but under the EPG, so the government aren't having to subsidise anything AND Octopus are getting the full retail price for those tariffs.

We were told, backed up by messages with Greg Jackson, that the current reason it was costing them money was the MSC.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79885382/#Comment_79885382

Have I understood the unit rates wrong?  Or is the tariff a loss-maker in the long term rather than the short term?

I get that you didn't personally post those tweets, but if anyone here can explain where I've misunderstood I would be grateful.

It has been loss making to the extent that a cap has been applied and that wholesale costs have pushed the price from which they can derive a profit above that cap. At the moment prices are well below the capped level, even for earlier versions that had a low cap, but each price spike is a loss-making event. Some of these loss-making periods have been quite prolonged.

bristolleedsfan

Spoonie_Turtle said:

We were told, backed up by messages with Greg Jackson, that the current reason it was costing them money was the MSC.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79885382/#Comment_79885382

MSC was one of two reasons/factors mentioned by G.J within that screenshot message.

Spoonie_Turtle

bristolleedsfan said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

We were told, backed up by messages with Greg Jackson, that the current reason it was costing them money was the MSC.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79885382/#Comment_79885382

MSC was one of two reasons/factors mentioned by G.J within that screenshot message.

Ah yes, rereading it I see that now, and now I understand your subsequent post after that ( https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79885501/#Comment_79885501 )

Thanks both, I think I get it now.

Chrysalis

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Just like to point out that the original point about costing Octopus money, which I didn't realise either, is the market stabilisation charge they've had to pay for customers switching to them. 

The actual tariff is not costing them, at the moment, but the hoardes of people switching since Tracker was promoted on whichever deal site have meant a lot of market stabilisation charges for Octopus.

Yeah that would make sense for new customers right, but this waiting list I think also applies to existing customers asking to switch over?

Spoonie_Turtle

Chrysalis said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Just like to point out that the original point about costing Octopus money, which I didn't realise either, is the market stabilisation charge they've had to pay for customers switching to them. 

The actual tariff is not costing them, at the moment, but the hoardes of people switching since Tracker was promoted on whichever deal site have meant a lot of market stabilisation charges for Octopus.

Yeah that would make sense for new customers right, but this waiting list I think also applies to existing customers asking to switch over?

Seems to, yes.  I don't know if it's partly to do with needing to manually switch people over, but they do seem to like to make sure people know what they're signing up for, which means an individual conversation with each person requesting to switch.  A massive influx obviously means more of them, and potentially those could take longer as well if people perhaps have investigated the tariff information slightly less than those requesting to switch to it after hearing about it via energy forums/discussions.  Maybe.

masonic

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Chrysalis said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Just like to point out that the original point about costing Octopus money, which I didn't realise either, is the market stabilisation charge they've had to pay for customers switching to them. 

The actual tariff is not costing them, at the moment, but the hoardes of people switching since Tracker was promoted on whichever deal site have meant a lot of market stabilisation charges for Octopus.

Yeah that would make sense for new customers right, but this waiting list I think also applies to existing customers asking to switch over?

Seems to, yes.  I don't know if it's partly to do with needing to manually switch people over, but they do seem to like to make sure people know what they're signing up for, which means an individual conversation with each person requesting to switch.  A massive influx obviously means more of them, and potentially those could take longer as well if people perhaps have investigated the tariff information slightly less than those requesting to switch to it after hearing about it via energy forums/discussions.  Maybe.

As someone who would otherwise have been switching to Tracker when my Go Faster tariff expires, I've had no problems having a conversation with Octopus about the tariff and its suitability for my circumstances. The waitlist is a separate thing and is being used to restrict the number of people who can join the tariff for economic reasons (50 per month being allowed to join). Both Agile and Tracker have similar risks, yet one is freely available and the other is not.

MWT

masonic said:

Both Agile and Tracker have similar risks, yet one is freely available and the other is not.

Mostly driven by certain websites aggressively promoting the Tracker tariff as the best deal around.

If any of them do the same for Agile then I'd expect a similar reaction from Octopus...

masonic

MWT said:

masonic said:

Both Agile and Tracker have similar risks, yet one is freely available and the other is not.

Mostly driven by certain websites aggressively promoting the Tracker tariff as the best deal around.

If any of them do the same for Agile then I'd expect a similar reaction from Octopus...

Indeed. We shall see how many of them consider it the best deal around from July onwards, and especially during the autumn/winter.

pfpf

masonic said:

MWT said:

masonic said:

Both Agile and Tracker have similar risks, yet one is freely available and the other is not.

Mostly driven by certain websites aggressively promoting the Tracker tariff as the best deal around.

If any of them do the same for Agile then I'd expect a similar reaction from Octopus...

Indeed. We shall see how many of them consider it the best deal around from July onwards, and especially during the autumn/winter.

out of interest, whats the driver "from July onwards" to push prices up on a tracker? is it the surge to buy stocks in advance for winter? i thought spot and long range prices were always very different?

masonic

pfpf said:

masonic said:

MWT said:

masonic said:

Both Agile and Tracker have similar risks, yet one is freely available and the other is not.

Mostly driven by certain websites aggressively promoting the Tracker tariff as the best deal around.

If any of them do the same for Agile then I'd expect a similar reaction from Octopus...

Indeed. We shall see how many of them consider it the best deal around from July onwards, and especially during the autumn/winter.

out of interest, whats the driver "from July onwards" to push prices up on a tracker? is it the surge to buy stocks in advance for winter? i thought spot and long range prices were always very different?

The EPG only lasts until the end of June. As I understand it Tracker will not be subject to the Ofgem price cap, so for those who have joined recently the cap will increase from ~33p to 100p. I have no idea what will happen to wholesale prices, but there is the potential for Tracker to rise above the Ofgem cap for periods of time starting in July.