Siess and a late tax return

Mrs_Ryan

There’s no right of appeal. I know that for sure. Doesn’t matter what your excuse is- it might maybe get you off a late filing penalty but there’s no chance of appeal against no getting the SEISS grant. 

joAnn

68ComebackSpecial said:

joAnn said:

I feel your pain! After being PAYE for many years and living overseas before going self employed, I used an accountant to submit my last set of Tax returns as wasn't sure what I was doing. This year, I decided to submit myself as it was too expensive to use accountant. I work in education, only getting paid for the time I actually spend in schools with children, so my income for last year was almost zero, so I could really use this money. I started the self assessment and tax return just after Christmas and due to various reasons (issues with landlord, no heating etc) at the start of the year, I forgot about it. I did log in to finish it off in the weeks leading up to 2 March and paid my bill on 1 March, but seems I didn't press submit! Realised the mistake, once I didn't receive the receipt of submission. Logged on and sent it straight away. ONE DAY LATE! I tried to call the general HMRC number in March but was on hold for so long I gave up. There is no record of this either.
Got the refusal email today and tried to find 'I don't agree', to launch my appeal but nowhere to be found. Tired the automated chat, took me in circles. I eventually got hold of someone on the phone after calling 3 times today and the guy seemed genuinely sympathetic. The system would not let him do anything or by pass the automated process. He did say it might be possible to access 'I don't agree' on gov gateway next week, but he did say it is particularly strict and the system allows very little room for appeals. Oh and I got my late penalty, which I paid! The government seemed to be coming to our financial rescue during lockdown last year, but they are now clawing every penny back where they can, don't get me started on this. 

Sorry, but I don't see what you have to complain about. Eligibility for previous SEISS grants was contingent on submission of self assessments so it was pretty self evident that the same criteria would be used for subsequent grants. They even gave you over an extra month to make your return! You had eleven months to spend, at most, one working day in which to prepare your return and you didn't manage it. The only person to blame for your failure to qualify is yourself - any "excuse" will be treated in the same way as you, as an educationalist, would a pupil who told you that "my dog ate my homework" .

That's ok, I see how this looks. 'I forgot about it' is my way of not going into the private and extenuating circumstances, including some  big life events, that actually got in the way of being able to complete on time. These things do happen and if a student did come to me with the Dog ate my homework, I would know how to respond to the student by taking into account their history and form. Always late? Yes the dog ate it. Never put a foot wrong? Something is amiss.
I have accepted my situation, but if I am afforded the opportunity to explain as such to someone on the end of the phone, then I will do. 

joAnn

That's ok, I see how this looks. 'I forgot about it' is my way of not going into the private and extenuating circumstances, including some  big life events, that actually got in the way of being able to complete on time. I did receive the other grants as I had submitted my tax on time before. I also paid the latest one on time, just as others said, thought I had submitted, but didn't. We are not all au fait with online submissions. These things do happen and if a student did come to me with the Dog ate my homework, I would know how to respond to the student after taking into account their history and form. Always late? Yes the dog ate it. Never put a foot wrong? Something is amiss. Give a little leeway.  
I have accepted my situation, but if I am afforded the opportunity to explain as such to someone on the end of the phone, to achieve a different outcome, then I will do.  Be understanding people, it's been a tough year!

BobRoberts

Yeah, I think there has to be some understanding. Its been an incredibly tough year. My situation is that in the last few years both my parents died a year apart, I got divorced and I moved to the other side of the country. I was just about to come out the other side when Covid hit. I have hardly worked for the last year, but I have been making use of the time retraining to extend what I can offer clients, and in February I joined a team of volunteers on a big project. I know we all are are, but the cumulative toll of the last few years has been exhausting. And unfortunately I was a few days late getting my tax return in.

Yes, I understand all the 'you've no excuse stuff', but it still seems incredibly harsh given that:

1. There was no such deadline for the previous three grants.
2. The deadline wasn't announced until after the deadline.
3. If its about providing support to people who need support, arguably they shouldn't be excluded and put into even more financial hardship due to an administrative oversight which has been resolved nearly two months before claims actually open.

Batesy1976

BobRoberts said:

Yeah, I think there has to be some understanding. Its been an incredibly tough year. My situation is that in the last few years both my parents died a year apart, I got divorced and I moved to the other side of the country. I was just about to come out the other side when Covid hit. I have hardly worked for the last year, but I have been making use of the time retraining to extend what I can offer clients, and in February I joined a team of volunteers on a big project. I know we all are are, but the cumulative toll of the last few years has been exhausting. And unfortunately I was a few days late getting my tax return in.

Yes, I understand all the 'you've no excuse stuff', but it still seems incredibly harsh given that:

1. There was no such deadline for the previous three grants.
2. The deadline wasn't announced until after the deadline.
3. If its about providing support to people who need support, arguably they shouldn't be excluded and put into even more financial hardship due to an administrative oversight which has been resolved nearly two months before claims actually open.

1.  The deadline people should be working to was Jan 31st, you know the well-publicised deadline for self-assessment returns.  People were given an extra month or two of leeway and still couldn't meet THAT deadline either.

2.  Irrelevant.  People knew their returns were due by Jan 31st.  If they'd filed them properly (and they had 9 months to do this don't forget) it wouldn't have mattered when the deadline was announced.  They also presumably want to cut down on potential fraud by cutting people off before the announcement.

3.  There are always going to be limits to any system.  Otherwise, it'd be a complete free for all, and you'd probably be complaining at how inept they were for allowing people to so easily make fraudulent applications.  Again, you seem to be thinking that the Government is being really strict here.  They aren't.  9 months, MONTHS, is the time people get to fill out a tax return.  People were actually given 11, and that still wasn't enough for some people. I'm not entirely without sympathy, but if you can't fill to a tax return in 11 months I think perhaps you should find alternate work on PAYE where someone else can do it for you.

The person you quoted keeps going on about a student being given leeway because the "dog ate their homework."  I suspect the OP would be a lot less lenient if said student had had 11 months to do said homework and still couldn't get it done.

Wendyb69

A bit of sympathy required here. I’m in the same boat, but it was my accountant who forgot to press submit. I had no knowledge of this and was confident my tax was all in order. Been in business over 30 not once have I ever been late with my tax. Haven’t earned in 18 months as I work in wedding industry. Really need this grant. 

Batesy1976

Wendyb69 said:

A bit of sympathy required here. I’m in the same boat, but it was my accountant who forgot to press submit. I had no knowledge of this and was confident my tax was all in order. Been in business over 30 not once have I ever been late with my tax. Haven’t earned in 18 months as I work in wedding industry. Really need this grant. 

No sympathy is required.  People have had nearly a year to file a tax return.  COVID or not that's a very long time.  They also knew, unlike last time, that continued grant payments would very likely be contingent on tax returns being filed.

Your situation is entirely different.  You hired an incompetent accountant.

sheramber

Wendyb69 said:

A bit of sympathy required here. I’m in the same boat, but it was my accountant who forgot to press submit. I had no knowledge of this and was confident my tax was all in order. Been in business over 30 not once have I ever been late with my tax. Haven’t earned in 18 months as I work in wedding industry. Really need this grant. 

Your complaint is with your accountant. He should recompense you. He should be insured for such  incidents.

macman

Wendyb69 said:

A bit of sympathy required here. I’m in the same boat, but it was my accountant who forgot to press submit. I had no knowledge of this and was confident my tax was all in order. Been in business over 30 not once have I ever been late with my tax. Haven’t earned in 18 months as I work in wedding industry. Really need this grant. 

Unfortunately, you and you alone are responsible for filing your return-not your accountant. So you have no grounds for an appeal.
As others have suggested, you can only dismiss him/her and sue them for your quantifiable losses, which would be the late filing fine and the value of the 4th SEISS grant (and, possibly, the 5th too).
It shouldn't need to go to court, as your accountant can have no possible defence. An LBA should be sufficient to persuade them or their insurers to pay up.

Wendyb69

Thanks, the thought of court makes me nervous, I don’t think I could go through it, and also wouldn’t have the funds to even begin pursuing it. The accountant is now (after apologising and admitting his mistake) saying that we gave him the accounts too late and that’s why he made the mistake. This is untrue, it was all completed by the middle of January and I paid his fee then. His last communication was that he can’t be held responsible for our company’s reliance on government handouts. This line absolutely crushed me. Been in business for over 30 years, never had any handouts till now, done the morally correct thing by all our customers during covid. And now this. It’s just the last straw for me.