Siess and a late tax return

Johnhop

Hi hopefully someone with relevant knowledge can help me.

I've just realised due to an email from hmrc that I've messed up and didn't file my 2019/2020 return before the deadline and I'm not eligible for the forth grant, I've had the previous grants and this is an honest mistake I haven't overlooked the tax return I'd actually thought that I'd filed it around this time last year but in hi dsight I think I tried to file it but hmrc shut the systems down so I couldn't complete the return this coupled with trying to set up payments for my 2018/2019 with the some emails to and fro because the beta system for this didn't work then this foiled with it being passed onto the collections company etc I've confused myself thinking I'd completed it but in fact I hadn't. (I'd even disputed the late filing a return charge thinking I'd already filed it) 

And as soon as I realised my mistake I filed the return yesterday, I didn't receive any reminders other than generic ones only the specific email telling me I'd received the £100 charge and now the your eligibility for siess has changed.

It looks once the payments start I can appeal this but does anyone in the know think I will stand a chance?

TIA... 

Batesy1976

Zero chance.

mattyprice4004

You have two hopes and one is Bob. 

Sadly the underlying fact is you were late so you’re out of luck. 

macman

Given that, until the budget announcement on 3/3/21, everyone thought that the last filing date had been 31/1, and then found that they'd had another 30 days grace period, to 2/3, I really don't see any basis for appealing this.
If you only went into 'panic mode' on or after 31/1, there was still adequate time to resolve any issues up to 2/3.

Johnhop

macman said:

Given that, until the budget announcement on 3/3/21, everyone thought that the last filing date had been 31/1, and then found that they'd had another 30 days grace period, to 2/3, I really don't see any basis for appealing this.
If you only went into 'panic mode' on or after 31/1, there was still adequate time to resolve any issues up to 2/3.

I think you've misunderstood I actually thought I'd filed the return (tbh I'm still 50/50 as I remember filling out the form) and I only logged into to look firstly after I received the late fee (to appeal), and then again after I received the eligibility status change, I also didn't know I'd miss out on the forth grant on this scenario for doing this late ( I'd not paid much attention to this given I'd assumed I'd filed my return) 

Under_the_Radar_2

Unfortunately I don't think they will give any room to appeal on those grounds, as genuine as your reason sounds if they did it would allow anyone who filed late to say the same thing and slip in to claim the grant, in their eyes this would mean people could potentially have waited for the announcement and then filed figures to improve their SEISS grant amount I guess. 

Hopefully I'm wrong, good luck. 

(if you do have any success and happen to remember to reply do let me know as I know someone who didn't submit before the 3rd of March, and a success story might encourage him to try)

Johnhop

Under_the_Radar_2 said:

Unfortunately I don't think they will give any room to appeal on those grounds, as genuine as your reason sounds if they did it would allow anyone who filed late to say the same thing and slip in to claim the grant, in their eyes this would mean people could potentially have waited for the announcement and then filed figures to improve their SEISS grant amount I guess. 

Hopefully I'm wrong, good luck. 

(if you do have any success and happen to remember to reply do let me know as I know someone who didn't submit before the 3rd of March, and a success story might encourage him to try)

That's one thing that is in my favour my figures are dismal lol and maybe the fact that I'd previously appealed the late fee staying the fact that I'd already filed my return, but your right I'm probably clutching at straws.. 

joAnn

I feel your pain! After being PAYE for many years and living overseas before going self employed, I used an accountant to submit my last set of Tax returns as wasn't sure what I was doing. This year, I decided to submit myself as it was too expensive to use accountant. I work in education, only getting paid for the time I actually spend in schools with children, so my income for last year was almost zero, so I could really use this money. I started the self assessment and tax return just after Christmas and due to various reasons (issues with landlord, no heating etc) at the start of the year, I forgot about it. I did log in to finish it off in the weeks leading up to 2 March and paid my bill on 1 March, but seems I didn't press submit! Realised the mistake, once I didn't receive the receipt of submission. Logged on and sent it straight away. ONE DAY LATE! I tried to call the general HMRC number in March but was on hold for so long I gave up. There is no record of this either.
Got the refusal email today and tried to find 'I don't agree', to launch my appeal but nowhere to be found. Tired the automated chat, took me in circles. I eventually got hold of someone on the phone after calling 3 times today and the guy seemed genuinely sympathetic. The system would not let him do anything or by pass the automated process. He did say it might be possible to access 'I don't agree' on gov gateway next week, but he did say it is particularly strict and the system allows very little room for appeals. Oh and I got my late penalty, which I paid! The government seemed to be coming to our financial rescue during lockdown last year, but they are now clawing every penny back where they can, don't get me started on this. 

Doubting_John

Johnhop said:

Hi hopefully someone with relevant knowledge can help me.

I've just realised due to an email from hmrc that I've messed up and didn't file my 2019/2020 return before the deadline and I'm not eligible for the forth grant, I've had the previous grants and this is an honest mistake I haven't overlooked the tax return I'd actually thought that I'd filed it around this time last year but in hi dsight I think I tried to file it but hmrc shut the systems down so I couldn't complete the return this coupled with trying to set up payments for my 2018/2019 with the some emails to and fro because the beta system for this didn't work then this foiled with it being passed onto the collections company etc I've confused myself thinking I'd completed it but in fact I hadn't. (I'd even disputed the late filing a return charge thinking I'd already filed it) 

And as soon as I realised my mistake I filed the return yesterday, I didn't receive any reminders other than generic ones only the specific email telling me I'd received the £100 charge and now the your eligibility for siess has changed.

It looks once the payments start I can appeal this but does anyone in the know think I will stand a chance?

TIA... 

Hi John hob.. I also found that I'd messed up something very similar to you. I filled in my return online in January.  I answered all the questions and entered all my figures.  I checked through the return and made sure all the sections were completed.  It actually said somewhere in so many words that  "Your return is complete' 
I logged off confident that all was well and good.. Some weeks later I received an email saying that I hadn't completed my return..  I thought it was generic, but I logged on immediately to check things out.. It looks like I failed to scroll down on the second to last page to a 'Continue' or 'Next' button as I thought the return was completed.. I found and clicked on this button and it took me to the "Declaration and Submit" page.. Yep ! I hadn't SUBMITTED  my return ! Anyway I did what was necessary and thought I'd just cop for a £100 penalty.. A few weeks later the penalty notice arrived.. Aw well hey Ho I thought... This morning ( 16th April) came the email bombshell  ! You are not eligible for the Fourth grant ! I rang the tax helpline and held for some 30 minutes.  Eventually I spoke to someone who sympathetically said that I'd f**ked it ! The rules are absolute and nothing can be done.. To add insult to injury I am automatically cut out from claiming the fifth grant as well  !
I'm totally and utterly devastated.. I receive a PIP payment and my older wife has a State pension so we have "Too much money coming in" to be able to claim Universal Credit.. After a ranting and raving session that would rival that of one of Hitler's I went to bed in tears..
GAME OVER MAN ! 

68ComebackSpecial

joAnn said:

I feel your pain! After being PAYE for many years and living overseas before going self employed, I used an accountant to submit my last set of Tax returns as wasn't sure what I was doing. This year, I decided to submit myself as it was too expensive to use accountant. I work in education, only getting paid for the time I actually spend in schools with children, so my income for last year was almost zero, so I could really use this money. I started the self assessment and tax return just after Christmas and due to various reasons (issues with landlord, no heating etc) at the start of the year, I forgot about it. I did log in to finish it off in the weeks leading up to 2 March and paid my bill on 1 March, but seems I didn't press submit! Realised the mistake, once I didn't receive the receipt of submission. Logged on and sent it straight away. ONE DAY LATE! I tried to call the general HMRC number in March but was on hold for so long I gave up. There is no record of this either.
Got the refusal email today and tried to find 'I don't agree', to launch my appeal but nowhere to be found. Tired the automated chat, took me in circles. I eventually got hold of someone on the phone after calling 3 times today and the guy seemed genuinely sympathetic. The system would not let him do anything or by pass the automated process. He did say it might be possible to access 'I don't agree' on gov gateway next week, but he did say it is particularly strict and the system allows very little room for appeals. Oh and I got my late penalty, which I paid! The government seemed to be coming to our financial rescue during lockdown last year, but they are now clawing every penny back where they can, don't get me started on this. 

Sorry, but I don't see what you have to complain about. Eligibility for previous SEISS grants was contingent on submission of self assessments so it was pretty self evident that the same criteria would be used for subsequent grants. They even gave you over an extra month to make your return! You had eleven months to spend, at most, one working day in which to prepare your return and you didn't manage it. The only person to blame for your failure to qualify is yourself - any "excuse" will be treated in the same way as you, as an educationalist, would a pupil who told you that "my dog ate my homework" .

Batesy1976

joAnn said:

Oh and I got my late penalty, which I paid! The government seemed to be coming to our financial rescue during lockdown last year, but they are now clawing every penny back where they can, don't get me started on this. 

They're still coming to our financial rescue, they just expect you to be able to fill out a few pages of forms at some point in a nine month period.  It's not a big ask.