Is it any wonder people lease/PCP?

motorguy

dipsomaniac said:

So many helpless (or can't be arsed) people on this site. Not very MSE😀

Doing our bit for the economy and supporting local jobs in these difficult times! 


And cant be arsed. 

GeordieGeorge

BOWFER said:

This forum can't help me thinking, is it any wonder the majority of car buyers lease or PCP new cars....?
The amount of posts with faults and the stress of having to deal with used car dealers (big or small)
Maybe those who scoff at lease/PCP need to appreciate why people do it......

I think that you are conflating two separate issues here. If you buy a two year-old Toyota outright you have three years’ warranty remaining, and have no need to then worry about reliability issues.

If you buy a brand-new car via a PCP then you’re choosing to pay new car depreciation and (generally) interest on top.

ElefantEd

Electric cars don't have spark plugs either. Or very much else that you can do yourself. In fact, the only maintenance I've done in the last 6 or 7 years has been replacing wipers and filling the wash bottle.

GeordieGeorge

BOWFER said:

DrEskimo said:

No....because all you are doing is saying "Don't buy that car for £3,600, which will only depreciate a couple of grand over the next few years, as you might get landed with a a repair bill. Instead, lease a car over 3yrs for £7,200, where you are guaranteed to pay thousands more than that potential repair bill over the term in depreciation/finance costs'.

It makes absolutely no sense financially...you simply substitute an unknown cost, with a prohibitively large known cost. 

Pay for the repair. In a few months without that lease payment they will have their savings back and in all likelihood the car will run just fine with no further big repair bills for years to come (or however long they wish to keep it).

Fundamental point on which I disagree.
I'm of the opinion that, on older cars, one fault will be replaced with another.
But I admit I'm a perfectionist and won't 'suffer' faults that other people will happily keep driving around with until they're forced to fix it.

Other than a Tesla I’ve never had a fault with any of the cars that I’ve owned.

I like “premium” cars, and set myself an annual budget for all-in ownership (the only way that it makes sense to me to look at the costs) and I can have a far nicer car by buying a few years older and buying outright than by buying a brand new car on a finance deal.

£10,000 per year over three years will get something extremely nice in the used market, such as an S-Class Mercedes, a Range Rover or a Porsche 911, whereas it’ll only get a mid-level BMW 3 Series on finance from new.

i understand that you prefer brand new, but it’s far from the cheapest way into your choice of car.

motorguy

GeordieGeorge said:

BOWFER said:

DrEskimo said:

No....because all you are doing is saying "Don't buy that car for £3,600, which will only depreciate a couple of grand over the next few years, as you might get landed with a a repair bill. Instead, lease a car over 3yrs for £7,200, where you are guaranteed to pay thousands more than that potential repair bill over the term in depreciation/finance costs'.

It makes absolutely no sense financially...you simply substitute an unknown cost, with a prohibitively large known cost. 

Pay for the repair. In a few months without that lease payment they will have their savings back and in all likelihood the car will run just fine with no further big repair bills for years to come (or however long they wish to keep it).

Fundamental point on which I disagree.
I'm of the opinion that, on older cars, one fault will be replaced with another.
But I admit I'm a perfectionist and won't 'suffer' faults that other people will happily keep driving around with until they're forced to fix it.

Other than a Tesla I’ve never had a fault with any of the cars that I’ve owned.

I like “premium” cars, and set myself an annual budget for all-in ownership (the only way that it makes sense to me to look at the costs) and I can have a far nicer car by buying a few years older and buying outright than by buying a brand new car on a finance deal.

£10,000 per year over three years will get something extremely nice in the used market, such as an S-Class Mercedes, a Range Rover or a Porsche 911, whereas it’ll only get a mid-level BMW 3 Series on finance from new.

i understand that you prefer brand new, but it’s far from the cheapest way into your choice of car.

Thats down to wants again though isnt it?

It works well for you and i can totally see your point RE: an S-Class or a Rangie, but 99.9% of the people leasing / PCPing a 3 series dont want that.  They wont need the extra space, it'll be too big, it'll be harder on fuel, it'll be out of warranty, etc, etc.

My wifes boss does similar to what you do.  Gets a year old 7 series every three years from the local BMW main dealer.  Paid about £35K for his last one.  Suits his Captain of Industry status and costs him likely less in depreciation than a 3 or 1 series of the same price.

BOWFER

motorguy said:

GeordieGeorge said:

Thats down to wants again though isnt it?

It works well for you and i can totally see your point RE: an S-Class or a Rangie, but 99.9% of the people leasing / PCPing a 3 series dont want that.  They wont need the extra space, it'll be too big, it'll be harder on fuel, it'll be out of warranty, etc, etc.

My wifes boss does similar to what you do.  Gets a year old 7 series every three years from the local BMW main dealer.  Paid about £35K for his last one.  Suits his Captain of Industry status and costs him likely less in depreciation than a 3 or 1 series of the same price.

Spot on.
As someone said earlier, us leasing our Evoque "could have got us a used Range Rover Sport"
We don't want that level of running expenses, or a car like that out of warranty.

Tokmon

annabanana82 said:

I know how to change a tyre but never done it, I can lift a spare tyre but I wouldn't be confident I have enough strength to tighten up the bolts sufficiently. 

I think I may have helped put a wheel back on after my Husband replaced the brakes, but this would have been nearly 20 years ago.

Last time I had a puncture my 16 year old son sorted it out without any trouble. 

Once, I have called the RAC out for a puncture this was due to it being on the drivers side and happened on a busy dual carriageway. It's a service I pay for and would have happily waited until it could be done. 

I have however changed the oil several times on previous cars, changed a water pump and an arm thingy that connected to the gearbox - not sure what its proper name is. 

Well i don't think many people have the equipment to change a tyre because it's impossible to balance the wheel when you fit the new tyre unless you have the proper equipment and if you have to take it to a garage to balance it anyway you might aswell get them to fit it aswell. 

Grumpy_chap said:

motorguy said:

Its a significant physical activity that involves lifting a heavy, large wheel out of the boot of a car.  Its also a physical activity to get a wheel off safely and get that up and in to the boot.  Its then another significant activity to lift the wheel up and align it whilst you try to align the bolts with the holes.  A typical wheel would weigh around 20KG+ which would have to be held up to be aligned with the bolt holes.

I did it recently on our car there the other week when changing wheels over and its not an activity i'd expect her to do even in the (relative) comfort, safety and space of our back yard, even before factoring in attempting to do so at the side of a busy road.

The one, and only, time I had a puncture requiring wheel change at the side of the road, I ended up calling the breakdown service in any case.

I'd got the jack all positioned ready to lift the car, got the spear wheel (spacesaver) out and pumped up the pressure, loosened the first three wheel nuts, but the fourth nut was not budging one iota with the small short wrench provided in the car kit against the over-use of the pneumatic gun in the last garage to do the wheels.  So the phone call had to go in for the breakdown service to attend.

They arrived and promptly refused to fit the spacesaver wheel.  Even though it was brand new with the "new tyre colourful stripes" (is there a name for that) and the sticker all intact, I was informed that he policy was not to fit on old cars (mine was 10yo) unless there was proof the tyre was new because of risk of rubber deterioration with age.  Instead, the car was loaded up and transported to the nearest tyre place open.

I hope you never went back to that garage again if they can't even use a torque wrench to properly tighten the nuts. 

motorguy

Tokmon said:

annabanana82 said:

I know how to change a tyre but never done it, I can lift a spare tyre but I wouldn't be confident I have enough strength to tighten up the bolts sufficiently. 

I think I may have helped put a wheel back on after my Husband replaced the brakes, but this would have been nearly 20 years ago.

Last time I had a puncture my 16 year old son sorted it out without any trouble. 

Once, I have called the RAC out for a puncture this was due to it being on the drivers side and happened on a busy dual carriageway. It's a service I pay for and would have happily waited until it could be done. 

I have however changed the oil several times on previous cars, changed a water pump and an arm thingy that connected to the gearbox - not sure what its proper name is. 

Well i don't think many people have the equipment to change a tyre because it's impossible to balance the wheel when you fit the new tyre unless you have the proper equipment and if you have to take it to a garage to balance it anyway you might aswell get them to fit it aswell. 

Grumpy_chap said:

motorguy said:

Its a significant physical activity that involves lifting a heavy, large wheel out of the boot of a car.  Its also a physical activity to get a wheel off safely and get that up and in to the boot.  Its then another significant activity to lift the wheel up and align it whilst you try to align the bolts with the holes.  A typical wheel would weigh around 20KG+ which would have to be held up to be aligned with the bolt holes.

I did it recently on our car there the other week when changing wheels over and its not an activity i'd expect her to do even in the (relative) comfort, safety and space of our back yard, even before factoring in attempting to do so at the side of a busy road.

The one, and only, time I had a puncture requiring wheel change at the side of the road, I ended up calling the breakdown service in any case.

I'd got the jack all positioned ready to lift the car, got the spear wheel (spacesaver) out and pumped up the pressure, loosened the first three wheel nuts, but the fourth nut was not budging one iota with the small short wrench provided in the car kit against the over-use of the pneumatic gun in the last garage to do the wheels.  So the phone call had to go in for the breakdown service to attend.

They arrived and promptly refused to fit the spacesaver wheel.  Even though it was brand new with the "new tyre colourful stripes" (is there a name for that) and the sticker all intact, I was informed that he policy was not to fit on old cars (mine was 10yo) unless there was proof the tyre was new because of risk of rubber deterioration with age.  Instead, the car was loaded up and transported to the nearest tyre place open.

I hope you never went back to that garage again if they can't even use a torque wrench to properly tighten the nuts. 

I assume they meant "change a wheel".

strawb_shortcake

motorguy said:

Tokmon said:

annabanana82 said:

I know how to change a tyre but never done it, I can lift a spare tyre but I wouldn't be confident I have enough strength to tighten up the bolts sufficiently. 

I think I may have helped put a wheel back on after my Husband replaced the brakes, but this would have been nearly 20 years ago.

Last time I had a puncture my 16 year old son sorted it out without any trouble. 

Once, I have called the RAC out for a puncture this was due to it being on the drivers side and happened on a busy dual carriageway. It's a service I pay for and would have happily waited until it could be done. 

I have however changed the oil several times on previous cars, changed a water pump and an arm thingy that connected to the gearbox - not sure what its proper name is. 

Well i don't think many people have the equipment to change a tyre because it's impossible to balance the wheel when you fit the new tyre unless you have the proper equipment and if you have to take it to a garage to balance it anyway you might aswell get them to fit it aswell. 

Grumpy_chap said:

motorguy said:

Its a significant physical activity that involves lifting a heavy, large wheel out of the boot of a car.  Its also a physical activity to get a wheel off safely and get that up and in to the boot.  Its then another significant activity to lift the wheel up and align it whilst you try to align the bolts with the holes.  A typical wheel would weigh around 20KG+ which would have to be held up to be aligned with the bolt holes.

I did it recently on our car there the other week when changing wheels over and its not an activity i'd expect her to do even in the (relative) comfort, safety and space of our back yard, even before factoring in attempting to do so at the side of a busy road.

The one, and only, time I had a puncture requiring wheel change at the side of the road, I ended up calling the breakdown service in any case.

I'd got the jack all positioned ready to lift the car, got the spear wheel (spacesaver) out and pumped up the pressure, loosened the first three wheel nuts, but the fourth nut was not budging one iota with the small short wrench provided in the car kit against the over-use of the pneumatic gun in the last garage to do the wheels.  So the phone call had to go in for the breakdown service to attend.

They arrived and promptly refused to fit the spacesaver wheel.  Even though it was brand new with the "new tyre colourful stripes" (is there a name for that) and the sticker all intact, I was informed that he policy was not to fit on old cars (mine was 10yo) unless there was proof the tyre was new because of risk of rubber deterioration with age.  Instead, the car was loaded up and transported to the nearest tyre place open.

I hope you never went back to that garage again if they can't even use a torque wrench to properly tighten the nuts. 

I assume they meant "change a wheel".

I did yes

motorguy

BOWFER said:

motorguy said:

GeordieGeorge said:

Thats down to wants again though isnt it?

It works well for you and i can totally see your point RE: an S-Class or a Rangie, but 99.9% of the people leasing / PCPing a 3 series dont want that.  They wont need the extra space, it'll be too big, it'll be harder on fuel, it'll be out of warranty, etc, etc.

My wifes boss does similar to what you do.  Gets a year old 7 series every three years from the local BMW main dealer.  Paid about £35K for his last one.  Suits his Captain of Industry status and costs him likely less in depreciation than a 3 or 1 series of the same price.

Spot on.
As someone said earlier, us leasing our Evoque "could have got us a used Range Rover Sport"
We don't want that level of running expenses, or a car like that out of warranty.

The good thing is - it kind of works.

Those who want to get a new car can avail of the incentivised finance deals / leases etc.

Those cars then become the used stock for those who prefer to buy used (and more likely with a cheap loan and / or cash).

George getting his exec cars cheap after a few years, someone has availed of a finance / leasing opportunity to get that car new.

Is buying / leasing / pcping a car new the cheapest option?  No of course not.  BUT does doing so wrap up depreciation, warranty, and sometimes servicing in to one monthly sum?  Yes.  Does that suit a lot of people?  Yes.

Theres no one size fits all right or wrong answer.  Like George, on our main car i tend to look at what i am prepared for the car to cost me over three years (usually using the 50% depreciation every three years notion as a rule of thumb) and take it from there.