Demand for import duty after delivery

Shagger

In late January I bought something from an online retailer in Germany. The retailer said that my order must be over a minimum value (143 Euros I think it was) to comply with some new EU laws that apply after Brexit, but there was no mention of any other taxes or fees. I placed the order above the specified minimum value, a few days later it arrived and all seemed fine. Shortly afterwards I left the country for work.

I arrived back home the other day and have just got round to going through the handful of letters that were waiting for me. Two of those are from the courier that delivered my order, demanding payment of import taxes that come to roughly 25% of the value of the order itself. One is dated early March and the other is dated 2 days before I got back.

Does anyone know what my rights are regarding this? I've bought loads of stuff from all over the world so I've had to pay import duty plenty of times before, but always before delivery, never after the delivery. I don't even see how this can be workable from a legal standpoint, because in charging it after delivery, the recipient has no option but to pay it despite never knowingly entering into any form of contract or agreement with the courier to do so. It means that hypothetically someone with sufficient money and malice could buy and send something to someone else without their consent and if they accepted delivery they'd then immediately be liable for a potentially limitless amount of import tax.

The latest letter gives me 10 days to pay before "further action" is taken, but doesn't specify what this is. Apologies if this is in the wrong forum. I wasn't sure what it would come under

Aylesbury_Duck

As I understand it, as the courier has paid the import duty on your behalf, you now owe them.  Others in this position have been advised to pay the courier and then consult HMRC if it's believed the duty was added in error.

In your hypothetical example, it would be a very odd thing for someone to do because the cost of buying and sending the item will almost certainly be more than the charge applied to the recipient.  Unlikely, I'd have thought.

Nearlyold

It's mainly Royal Mail who ask you to pay before delivery,  many other couriers standard practice is to send you a bill after they've delivered the goods- there are countless threads on this site on this very same subject.

Since 01/01/21 if the goods cost more than £135  the German retailer should have supplied the goods with no German VAT charged thus you would be liable for VAT on the goods arrival in the UK. If the goods cost £135 or less then the German company (having previously registered with HMRC) should charge you UK VAT (but no German VAT) which they remit to HMRC and there would be no additional charges on the goods arrival in the UK.

So leaving the billed before or after issue to one side for the moment have the goods been supplied/priced  correctly in relation to the new import rules introduced 01/01/21

visidigi

Shagger said:

In late January I bought something from an online retailer in Germany. The retailer said that my order must be over a minimum value (143 Euros I think it was) to comply with some new EU laws that apply after Brexit, but there was no mention of any other taxes or fees. I placed the order above the specified minimum value, a few days later it arrived and all seemed fine. Shortly afterwards I left the country for work.

I arrived back home the other day and have just got round to going through the handful of letters that were waiting for me. Two of those are from the courier that delivered my order, demanding payment of import taxes that come to roughly 25% of the value of the order itself. One is dated early March and the other is dated 2 days before I got back.

Does anyone know what my rights are regarding this? I've bought loads of stuff from all over the world so I've had to pay import duty plenty of times before, but always before delivery, never after the delivery. I don't even see how this can be workable from a legal standpoint, because in charging it after delivery, the recipient has no option but to pay it despite never knowingly entering into any form of contract or agreement with the courier to do so. It means that hypothetically someone with sufficient money and malice could buy and send something to someone else without their consent and if they accepted delivery they'd then immediately be liable for a potentially limitless amount of import tax.

The latest letter gives me 10 days to pay before "further action" is taken, but doesn't specify what this is. Apologies if this is in the wrong forum. I wasn't sure what it would come under

Whats really odd is that the seller has implied you need to spend OVER the threshold upon which it costs you more...

As for further action - debt collection most likely.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

visidigi said:

Shagger said:

In late January I bought something from an online retailer in Germany. The retailer said that my order must be over a minimum value (143 Euros I think it was) to comply with some new EU laws that apply after Brexit, but there was no mention of any other taxes or fees. I placed the order above the specified minimum value, a few days later it arrived and all seemed fine. Shortly afterwards I left the country for work.

I arrived back home the other day and have just got round to going through the handful of letters that were waiting for me. Two of those are from the courier that delivered my order, demanding payment of import taxes that come to roughly 25% of the value of the order itself. One is dated early March and the other is dated 2 days before I got back.

Does anyone know what my rights are regarding this? I've bought loads of stuff from all over the world so I've had to pay import duty plenty of times before, but always before delivery, never after the delivery. I don't even see how this can be workable from a legal standpoint, because in charging it after delivery, the recipient has no option but to pay it despite never knowingly entering into any form of contract or agreement with the courier to do so. It means that hypothetically someone with sufficient money and malice could buy and send something to someone else without their consent and if they accepted delivery they'd then immediately be liable for a potentially limitless amount of import tax.

The latest letter gives me 10 days to pay before "further action" is taken, but doesn't specify what this is. Apologies if this is in the wrong forum. I wasn't sure what it would come under

Whats really odd is that the seller has implied you need to spend OVER the threshold upon which it costs you more...

As for further action - debt collection most likely.

That’s to save the German company having to register for VAT here in the UK.

Shagger

Thanks for all the replies.

The hypothetical situation I described- someone rich and vindictive ordering an expensive item just to burden someone else with tax obligations- was indeed odd, but the principle it demonstrates is even more odd, because unless I'm missing something this system means that it's legally possible to enter a complete stranger into a contract bearing potentially significant costs without their knowledge or consent. In which case that seems absurd.

I've dug out the invoice and I wasn't charged any German or UK VAT at the time so it looks like I'll just have to pay up, lesson learned, and make sure I'm mindful of this if buying abroad again especially if it's just before I go away, otherwise I might come home to a CCJ that's seemingly appeared from nowhere!

CardinalWolsey

Note that further action, if relating to debt collection, they have no legal powers - so cannot force you to pay, cannot enter your premises etc. What they can do, is take you through the small claims process, which is where a CCJ might arise. Unless you never opened any letter from either them or from the court, you would be fully aware of the court action and be able to defend it. A CCJ should never just appear from "nowhere"!

Jenni_D

CardinalWolsey said:

A CCJ should never just appear from "nowhere"!

It potentially could in the OP's situation if they went away for 2 months and a court claim arrived a week after they left. The claimant could have filed and been awarded a default judgment easily within that 2 month period.

visidigi

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

visidigi said:

Shagger said:

In late January I bought something from an online retailer in Germany. The retailer said that my order must be over a minimum value (143 Euros I think it was) to comply with some new EU laws that apply after Brexit, but there was no mention of any other taxes or fees. I placed the order above the specified minimum value, a few days later it arrived and all seemed fine. Shortly afterwards I left the country for work.

I arrived back home the other day and have just got round to going through the handful of letters that were waiting for me. Two of those are from the courier that delivered my order, demanding payment of import taxes that come to roughly 25% of the value of the order itself. One is dated early March and the other is dated 2 days before I got back.

Does anyone know what my rights are regarding this? I've bought loads of stuff from all over the world so I've had to pay import duty plenty of times before, but always before delivery, never after the delivery. I don't even see how this can be workable from a legal standpoint, because in charging it after delivery, the recipient has no option but to pay it despite never knowingly entering into any form of contract or agreement with the courier to do so. It means that hypothetically someone with sufficient money and malice could buy and send something to someone else without their consent and if they accepted delivery they'd then immediately be liable for a potentially limitless amount of import tax.

The latest letter gives me 10 days to pay before "further action" is taken, but doesn't specify what this is. Apologies if this is in the wrong forum. I wasn't sure what it would come under

Whats really odd is that the seller has implied you need to spend OVER the threshold upon which it costs you more...

As for further action - debt collection most likely.

That’s to save the German company having to register for VAT here in the UK.

I'm aware - but the point (I badly) meant by saying it is that it makes the duties and cost to the buyer much more impactful.

No wonder EU imports for ecommerce has tanked proportionally speaking

Steveyg777

i am in the same. boat. saved up for ages to buy a pioneer car stereo for £331 from an Italian seller on amazon. on about 18th january. Thought nothing about it, and WASNT made aware of any other charges I might incur.

a couple of months later I get a DHL letter demanding another £87 (inc £11 fee they put onto it)!

Surely amazon should have placed some kind of bold text box on the product page warning people they may incur extra import charges!
Would have been cheaper in more convenient to by it from halfords for the £399 instead.

I did see something about claiming VAT relief. Would I be able to do that do you think? if so what is the best way to go about it?

Jenni_D

Steveyg777 said:

I did see something about claiming VAT relief. Would I be able to do that do you think? if so what is the best way to go about it?

Are you a VAT-registered business? If not then you can't claim VAT relief AFAIK.