Nearly £60k down-valuation by lender

GDB2222

lisyloo said:

Crashy_Time said:

Crashy_Time said:

 and I can`t see anyone being convinced that most new-builds are anything more than basic shelter?

Totally disagree.
most of the new builds round my way are dream homes of varying sizes. Yes some are pokey but so are a lot of older terraced houses. Some are spacious.

The few new builds round here tend to have comparatively tiny plots for the size of house.   That's because there was a change in government policy. In the past planning limited the number of habitable rooms per acre. Now, it's almost the other way around, with planners giving preference to developments that maximise the number of rooms. 

Crashy_Time

lisyloo said:

Crashy_Time said:

Crashy_Time said:

 and I can`t see anyone being convinced that most new-builds are anything more than basic shelter?

Totally disagree.
most of the new builds round my way are dream homes of varying sizes. Yes some are pokey but so are a lot of older terraced houses. Some are spacious.
having bought 2 new builds in my lifetime I can say that the amount of brand new stuff (not just white goods but electrics, plumbing, kitchens, bathrooms, fencing, patios, windows, doors, roof) means low maintenance for at least a decade or two and make them very easy to move in to for first time buyers. This overrides any snagging/finishing issues that have to be dealt with.

they are designed to be attractive to the majority. The only ones that might be basic are the few mandated “affordable” ones, which don’t always serve their purpose (for example in villages where there are no jobs for their target market).

I guess people have to decide who they want to take advice from. Clearly disgruntled people in flats praying beyond all logic for a crash so much that they make it into a name?

it’s evident which way prices are going and it’s evident why

interest rates are going nowhere for years/decades because we have a large public debt.

Global/US/China money printing and global bond/credit markets don`t care about UK public debt.

 Do you think these "Dream Homes" increase or decrease in value after they are purchased?

SpiderLegs

Crashy_Time said:

lisyloo said:

Crashy_Time said:

Crashy_Time said:

 and I can`t see anyone being convinced that most new-builds are anything more than basic shelter?

Totally disagree.
most of the new builds round my way are dream homes of varying sizes. Yes some are pokey but so are a lot of older terraced houses. Some are spacious.
having bought 2 new builds in my lifetime I can say that the amount of brand new stuff (not just white goods but electrics, plumbing, kitchens, bathrooms, fencing, patios, windows, doors, roof) means low maintenance for at least a decade or two and make them very easy to move in to for first time buyers. This overrides any snagging/finishing issues that have to be dealt with.

they are designed to be attractive to the majority. The only ones that might be basic are the few mandated “affordable” ones, which don’t always serve their purpose (for example in villages where there are no jobs for their target market).

I guess people have to decide who they want to take advice from. Clearly disgruntled people in flats praying beyond all logic for a crash so much that they make it into a name?

it’s evident which way prices are going and it’s evident why

interest rates are going nowhere for years/decades because we have a large public debt.

Global/US/China money printing and global bond/credit markets don`t care about UK public debt.

 Do you think these "Dream Homes" increase or decrease in value after they are purchased?

They increase in value crashy, just like all the other houses.

thank god that inflation and interest rate rises are going to see house prices plummet in the next few months. I’m predicting at least 30% off by Christmas.

Crashy_Time

SpiderLegs said:

Crashy_Time said:

lisyloo said:

Crashy_Time said:

Crashy_Time said:

 and I can`t see anyone being convinced that most new-builds are anything more than basic shelter?

Totally disagree.
most of the new builds round my way are dream homes of varying sizes. Yes some are pokey but so are a lot of older terraced houses. Some are spacious.
having bought 2 new builds in my lifetime I can say that the amount of brand new stuff (not just white goods but electrics, plumbing, kitchens, bathrooms, fencing, patios, windows, doors, roof) means low maintenance for at least a decade or two and make them very easy to move in to for first time buyers. This overrides any snagging/finishing issues that have to be dealt with.

they are designed to be attractive to the majority. The only ones that might be basic are the few mandated “affordable” ones, which don’t always serve their purpose (for example in villages where there are no jobs for their target market).

I guess people have to decide who they want to take advice from. Clearly disgruntled people in flats praying beyond all logic for a crash so much that they make it into a name?

it’s evident which way prices are going and it’s evident why

interest rates are going nowhere for years/decades because we have a large public debt.

Global/US/China money printing and global bond/credit markets don`t care about UK public debt.

 Do you think these "Dream Homes" increase or decrease in value after they are purchased?

They increase in value crashy, just like all the other houses.

thank god that inflation and interest rate rises are going to see house prices plummet in the next few months. I’m predicting at least 30% off by Christmas.

Really not sure about new builds TBH...risky purchase at silly prices IMO.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/14735308/new-build-home-warning-mortgage-guarantee-scheme/

SpiderLegs

Crashy_Time said:

SpiderLegs said:

Crashy_Time said:

lisyloo said:

Crashy_Time said:

Crashy_Time said:

 and I can`t see anyone being convinced that most new-builds are anything more than basic shelter?

Totally disagree.
most of the new builds round my way are dream homes of varying sizes. Yes some are pokey but so are a lot of older terraced houses. Some are spacious.
having bought 2 new builds in my lifetime I can say that the amount of brand new stuff (not just white goods but electrics, plumbing, kitchens, bathrooms, fencing, patios, windows, doors, roof) means low maintenance for at least a decade or two and make them very easy to move in to for first time buyers. This overrides any snagging/finishing issues that have to be dealt with.

they are designed to be attractive to the majority. The only ones that might be basic are the few mandated “affordable” ones, which don’t always serve their purpose (for example in villages where there are no jobs for their target market).

I guess people have to decide who they want to take advice from. Clearly disgruntled people in flats praying beyond all logic for a crash so much that they make it into a name?

it’s evident which way prices are going and it’s evident why

interest rates are going nowhere for years/decades because we have a large public debt.

Global/US/China money printing and global bond/credit markets don`t care about UK public debt.

 Do you think these "Dream Homes" increase or decrease in value after they are purchased?

They increase in value crashy, just like all the other houses.

thank god that inflation and interest rate rises are going to see house prices plummet in the next few months. I’m predicting at least 30% off by Christmas.

Really not sure about new builds TBH...risky purchase at silly prices IMO.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/14735308/new-build-home-warning-mortgage-guarantee-scheme/

I don’t read the sun crashy, it’s almost as bad as the daily mail.

anyway when prices have dropped 35% by October there won’t be any new builds sold at all!

Gavin83

Ozzuk said:

Crashy_Time said:

Davesnave said:

Crashy_Time said:

Davesnave said:

Crashy_Time said:

Davesnave said:

It could be that lenders are beginning to price-in a bit of caution now, given that 'Pandemic' has only a limited time to run now and eventually the $h1t will really HTF?

Do you mean that without Covid things like furlough/SD holiday etc. have to end and economic reality be faced up to? Do you think jobs/lending will come back if this ends soon?

I mean that no economy has ever printed its way out of trouble. I don't do the whole Mystic Meg thing saying when exactly the SHTF, but it will.

To be fair to the politicians/bankers they have managed to keep things ticking over (and the property bubble going) since 2008 by money printing? The irony is that the money printing overdrive needed to escape the massively deflationary event that is Covid will likely send mortgage rates/general borrowing rates much higher?

I have no idea, but it's in the nature of lenders to be cautious. Individuals only see a small bit of the elephant.

Covid has had zero negative economic effect on my family; in fact some younger ones have found new secure jobs in the past few months and the others are run off their feet. Here in the countryside people are still scratching their heads over Brexit and whether the French will still be seeking-out our lamb! 

Way too late though, their lending practices have caused the current mess. Down valuations are to be welcomed though, the more the better IMO.

News yesterday house prices still increasing, no sign of your ever-predicted downturn.  I admit I'm not watching house sales as much as previous years as I've luckily secured somewhere I'll hopefully be in for a very long time but every indication is it isn't the doom and gloom many predicted.  Spending is going crazy, money is flowing and people will want a change of scenery which means demand will increase.

I’m not at all shocked house prices are still increasing. I’ll be shocked if they don’t drop by the end of the year though. End of the stamp duty freeze, end of furlough, general economic hardship and employees realising that their city based employers aren’t as open to permanent remote working as they thought will cause a drop.

5% mortgages are great and all but if you haven’t got a job it’s still a no go. I suspect the kind of people who haven’t been affected by Covid won’t be the kind applying for 5% mortgages anyway.

Crashy_Time

SpiderLegs said:

Crashy_Time said:

SpiderLegs said:

Crashy_Time said:

lisyloo said:

Crashy_Time said:

Crashy_Time said:

 and I can`t see anyone being convinced that most new-builds are anything more than basic shelter?

Totally disagree.
most of the new builds round my way are dream homes of varying sizes. Yes some are pokey but so are a lot of older terraced houses. Some are spacious.
having bought 2 new builds in my lifetime I can say that the amount of brand new stuff (not just white goods but electrics, plumbing, kitchens, bathrooms, fencing, patios, windows, doors, roof) means low maintenance for at least a decade or two and make them very easy to move in to for first time buyers. This overrides any snagging/finishing issues that have to be dealt with.

they are designed to be attractive to the majority. The only ones that might be basic are the few mandated “affordable” ones, which don’t always serve their purpose (for example in villages where there are no jobs for their target market).

I guess people have to decide who they want to take advice from. Clearly disgruntled people in flats praying beyond all logic for a crash so much that they make it into a name?

it’s evident which way prices are going and it’s evident why

interest rates are going nowhere for years/decades because we have a large public debt.

Global/US/China money printing and global bond/credit markets don`t care about UK public debt.

 Do you think these "Dream Homes" increase or decrease in value after they are purchased?

They increase in value crashy, just like all the other houses.

thank god that inflation and interest rate rises are going to see house prices plummet in the next few months. I’m predicting at least 30% off by Christmas.

Really not sure about new builds TBH...risky purchase at silly prices IMO.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/14735308/new-build-home-warning-mortgage-guarantee-scheme/

I don’t read the sun crashy, it’s almost as bad as the daily mail.

anyway when prices have dropped 35% by October there won’t be any new builds sold at all!

I don`t read them either, the link was just to underline that the government 95% scheme isn`t going to apply to newbuilds according to some lenders, I read that as they see risk in the overleveraged being encouraged to overpay for Lego Boxes.

Crashy_Time

MobileSaver said:

Crashy_Time said:

I can`t see anyone being convinced that most new-builds are anything more than basic shelter?

On the contrary, a brand new new-build, never before lived in, low maintenance, double glazed, highly insulated with shiny new appliances, a ten year warranty and the buyer often having the luxury of choosing the finishing touches is anything but "basic shelter".

The very fact you think that is basic shelter explains an awful lot about your flawed reasoning as to why the property market is always just about to crash.

Crashy_Time said:

No idea how you know the rent stats and number of empty flats for my area, even I don`t know that, ... Don`t you think that the real reason might be a global pandemic

I only know what you have previously told us which is that there were loads of empty BTLs both in your block of flats and the surround blocks!

You were gloating at the time about landlords struggling, are you now saying those flats are no longer empty and the landlords are no longer struggling?

Crashy_Time said:

MobileSaver said:

Of course one of the reasons transactions were higher all that time ago is because of "liar loans", if they were reintroduced and consequently transactions increased do you think that would be good for the housing market?

Without Liar Loans less people can buy at the prices that Liar Loans created, but the only thing holding it all up even at lower transaction levels is super low rates,

So you accept that liar loans were a bad thing and so due to banning liar loans less property transactions are actually a good thing?

1) I don`t think your sentiment towards new builds is representative of the general experience really, you may be incorrectly generalising something you see locally to the wider market?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6261997/how-long-do-the-roads-have-to-be-completed-after-the-housing-development-has-finished#latest

2) Empty flats are more likely a symptom of changing economics and wage levels (it is likely that younger people who can do so will return to parents for a while rather than struggle to maintain a private flat on reduced hours or benefits during Covid for example) rather than being in an "undesirable" area, there is a logical inconsistency in your belief that there can be "loads" of BTL in an undesirable area, sure there are a minority of landlords who don`t have the first clue, but IMO the majority of landlords don`t buy BTL in areas where people don`t desire to live!

3) Liar Loans helped to inflate the market, historically low interest rates helped to keep the prices inflated but with less people able or willing to buy at those prices, none of this is a good outcome for ordinary hard working money savers. The best outcome IMO is cheap property that people can buy without going into debt for 35 years and sell when they want to move without expecting a bumper cash pay out off the backs of the next generation of borrowers. 

The fact that banks are starting to reduce the expectations of greedy sellers should be welcomed as very good news IMO!

SpiderLegs

Crashy_Time said:

1) I don`t think your sentiment towards new builds is representative of the general experience really, you may be incorrectly generalising something you see locally to the wider market?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6261997/how-long-do-the-roads-have-to-be-completed-after-the-housing-development-has-finished#latest

2) Empty flats are more likely a symptom of changing economics and wage levels (it is likely that younger people who can do so will return to parents for a while rather than struggle to maintain a private flat on reduced hours or benefits during Covid for example) rather than being in an "undesirable" area, there is a logical inconsistency in your belief that there can be "loads" of BTL in an undesirable area, sure there are a minority of landlords who don`t have the first clue, but IMO the majority of landlords don`t buy BTL in areas where people don`t desire to live!

3) Liar Loans helped to inflate the market, historically low interest rates helped to keep the prices inflated but with less people able or willing to buy at those prices, none of this is a good outcome for ordinary hard working money savers. The best outcome IMO is cheap property that people can buy without going into debt for 35 years and sell when they want to move without expecting a bumper cash pay out off the backs of the next generation of borrowers. 

The fact that banks are starting to reduce the expectations of greedy sellers should be welcomed as very good news IMO!

Hi crashy. For today’s lesson in ‘how to have a coherent argument’ I would advise the following.

1. Consistency.
Don’t criticise someone’s specific view for not being ‘representative of the wider experience’ and then reference one thread about one persons experience

2. Fact based.
If you are going to make statements about what is ‘likely’. Provide some evidence or it just looks like you’ve made something up to support your conclusion.

3. Real-life accuracy.
Consider whether your claims reflect reality. For example, the majority of people who sell do not get a bumper cash payout of any kind. A payout, if there is one, usually comes when the person is dead and is handed out to the next generation of borrowers.


tune in next week when I will explain how using a maximum statistic from a long time ago and comparing it to an entirely different set of circumstances that have been in play for around 15 years, can make someone look like a complete idiot.

Crashy_Time

Would be interesting to hear back from the OP before the thread gets too side-tracked I think.